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Author Topic: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:  (Read 6410 times)

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Offline DecemRationis

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Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
« Reply #75 on: June 02, 2020, 06:11:19 AM »
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  • In the Latin original of Etsi multa we have a single sentence concerning the indefectibility and the new hierarchy:


    Quote from: Pius IX, Etsi multa luctuosa
    Quote
    Eapropter denegant etiam indefectibilitatem Ecclesiae, blasphemantes ipsam in toto periisse mundo, proindeque visibile eius Caput et Episcopos defecisse : ex quo sibi ferunt necessitatem impositam legitimi episcopatus instaurandi in suo pseudo-episcopo [...]


    Quote from: Pius IX, Etsi multa luctuosa
    Quote
    For that reason, they additionaly deny the indefectibility of the Church, blaspheming that the same would have perished throughout the world, and accordingly its visible Head and the bishops would have erred : wherefore they assert a self imposed necessity to restore the legitimate episcopate in their pseudo-Bishop


    etiam here means additionally, since the word deny occurs for the first time. Before, the Old Catholics reject, oppose, boldly affirm, etc. But that's not all, they also deny the indefectibility. In what way do they deny the indefectibility? They do it by saying that the Church has perished, Pope and bishops have erred, and the legitimate episcopate has to be restored.

    (They don't do it by saying that the Church has perished, Pope and bishops have erred, and the consummation of the age has begun.)




    Pius IX concedes that there will may be a defection at the end of the age in the following way:

    Pius IX compares the Old Catholics to the Donatists and adopts the reasoning of St Augustine. Augustine interprets the Psalm Call me not away in the midst of my days and tells the Donatists that they can't state that the Church has apostatized, since the consummation of the age has not yet come. How could the Donatists know that (at that time) the consummation of the age had not yet come? Augustine says: Non vides adhuc esse gentes in quibus nondum est praedicatum Evangelium? (Do you see not that there are still nations among whom the Gospel has not been preached?) This refers to Mt 24,14:

    Augustine's reasoning is: An apostasy is not expected before the consummation of the age (i.e. in the midst of her days). Augustine therefore implicitly concedes, that an apostasy may happen at the consummation of the age.



    P.S.: St Augustine elsewhere reckons with an apostasy at the consummation of the age. He comments on 2 Thess 2:

    P.P.S.: With respect to my translation above: The word eapropter occurs in the encyclical Quanta cura of the same Pope Pius IX. vatican.va has an Italian translation where eapropter is translated as conseguentemente that's consequently. The English translation on papalencyclicals.net has for this reason.
    The expression ex quo is used twice in Quanta cura. Translations are whereof or from which.

    vatican.va: Quanta cura, Latin
    vatican.va: Quanta cura, Italian
    papalencyclicals.net: Quanta cura, English

    I find your argument interesting and enjoy the presentation of the Latin, particularly the discussion of St. Augustine.

    Having said that, note the pope says, "[f]or that reason, they additionally deny the indefectibility." What reason? The one he just stated: they say the pope and the bishops in union with him in an ecuмenical council declared heresy.

    Anyway, as I said, we largely agree on what V2 and what the conciliar church means - the gospel has been preached throughout the world, the apostate heretics have taken over and its the "discessio" (schism) predicted (2 TH 2:3) and it's the consummation of the age. We await the Lord's return, which is imminent. 
    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

    Offline Karen Yapper

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    Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
    « Reply #76 on: June 02, 2020, 10:46:47 AM »
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  • Women need a stronger voice in the Catholic Church!!! The Church is hurting because for too long it's been all men who have run it!!! There needs to be a balance of women and men leading the Church. We are all equal to God. Let's live it!!!


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
    « Reply #77 on: June 02, 2020, 11:00:06 AM »
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  • Women need a stronger voice in the Catholic Church!!! The Church is hurting because for too long it's been all men who have run it!!! There needs to be a balance of women and men leading the Church. We are all equal to God. Let's live it!!!

    Just stop it, Croix.  You get more pathetic with each new account you create.  Seek psychiatric help.

    Offline Karen Yapper

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    Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
    « Reply #78 on: June 02, 2020, 11:05:44 AM »
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  • Just stop it, Croix.  You get more pathetic with each new account you create.  Seek psychiatric help.

    Listen, buster! Just because you're a man doesn't give you the right to bark orders at me! You're the one who needs mental help. This is the second time you called me a "croix". You brute!

    Offline Meg

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    Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
    « Reply #79 on: June 02, 2020, 11:06:55 AM »
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  • Listen, buster! Just because you're a man doesn't give you the right to bark orders at me! You're the one who needs mental help. This is the second time you called me a "croix". You brute!

    What is it that you hope to accomplish? Your posts are a distraction from the discussions. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline Karen Yapper

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    Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
    « Reply #80 on: June 02, 2020, 11:09:55 AM »
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  • What is it that you hope to accomplish? Your posts are a distraction from the discussions.

    The better question is why do you, a woman, have the mentality that women shouldn't have as much of a voice as men in the Catholic sphere?

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
    « Reply #81 on: June 02, 2020, 11:10:34 AM »
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  • Just stop it, Croix.  You get more pathetic with each new account you create.  Seek psychiatric help.
    :laugh1:  I have only gotten a handful of downvotes so far, but I suspected he was back when that started up.  Then I saw the new member named "Karen Yapper" and I knew he was back.    

    Offline Karen Yapper

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    Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
    « Reply #82 on: June 02, 2020, 11:14:23 AM »
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  • :laugh1:  I have only gotten a handful of downvotes so far, but I suspected he was back when that started up.  Then I saw the new member named "Karen Yapper" and I knew he was back.   

    I just tried voting up or down but I can't do it. Don't be so sensitive. Women need to show their real strength more. Don't be reserved.


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
    « Reply #83 on: June 02, 2020, 11:16:53 AM »
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  • I just tried voting up or down but I can't do it. Don't be so sensitive. Women need to show their real strength more. Don't be reserved.
    So should we assume you signed up as a woman?  

    Offline Meg

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    Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
    « Reply #84 on: June 02, 2020, 11:18:34 AM »
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  • So should we assume you signed up as a woman?  

    Croix is just trying to get in touch with his 'feminine side.'
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
    « Reply #85 on: June 02, 2020, 11:20:39 AM »
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  • :laugh1:  I have only gotten a handful of downvotes so far, but I suspected he was back when that started up.  Then I saw the new member named "Karen Yapper" and I knew he was back.    

    Yes, I suspected this account as his right out of the gate.  It's a slight variant on a previous attempt.  He chose an avatar of a Jєωιѕн-looking woman making a disturbing/annoying face as a commentary on his disdain for both Jews and women.  So he's now making sarcastic comments trying to represent such a person.

    Either the guy is incredibly bored or else he needs psychological help ... but most likely both.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
    « Reply #86 on: June 02, 2020, 11:25:23 AM »
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  • Croix is a living example of what happens when your diet consists of 90% refined sugar and no healthy fats ... the diet he brags about.

    I've tried to explain it to him that the brain needs certain types of healthy fats to function correctly.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
    « Reply #87 on: June 02, 2020, 11:26:35 AM »
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  • Croix is just trying to get in touch with his 'feminine side.'

    He's self-identifying now as a Jєωιѕн woman.  Who are we to judge?

    Offline Karen Yapper

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    Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
    « Reply #88 on: June 02, 2020, 11:27:54 AM »
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  • He chose an avatar of a Jєωιѕн-looking woman making a disturbing/annoying face as a commentary on his disdain for both Jews and women. 


    Anti Semite !!!

    And don't you dare call me a "he". You're insane, buster!

    Offline Meg

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    Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
    « Reply #89 on: June 02, 2020, 11:32:04 AM »
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  • He's self-identifying now as a Jєωιѕн woman.  Who are we to judge?
    Exactly! 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29