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Author Topic: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:  (Read 9078 times)

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Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2020, 04:53:04 PM »
When I started the thread in 2014, there were TEN such living bishops appointed by Pius XII!

Today there is just one:

27 Apr 195862.07Archbishop Bernardino Piñera CarvalloArchbishop Emeritus of La Serena, Chile


That's 62.07 years A BISHOP, mind you -- not 62 years old. Wow!

But he was only appointed as a titular Bishop by Pius XII, and titular bishops don't receive ordinary jurisdiction.  They exercise jurisdiction that is delegated to them by the Pope, and they lose it when the Pope dies.  

Catholic Encyclipedia:"Titulars, as such, have not, and do not exercise, power of order and jurisdiction, in and over their titular sees. All actual jurisdiction in titular sees the pope reserves to himself, and exercises through the Sacred Congregation of Propaganda. The jurisdiction of a diocesan is ordinary. Should a titular perform a jurisdictional function, he uses delegated jurisdiction."

That means there are no more bishops alive today who possessed ordinary jurisdiction when Pius XII died.  For sedevacantists, that means there are no more formal successors of the apostles, no more hierarchy, and no more true Church with four marks.  If there's no salvation outside of the true Church, and the true Church no longer exists, how can anyone be saved?  And if someone says salvation is possible when there is no Church, they are guilty of heresy for denying EENS.

Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2020, 04:59:26 PM »
Again, too much credit and authority is being given to non-infallible statements of theologians and even of the hierarchy (and even popes) in their fallible, ordinary capacity.
Since bishops can only receive jurisdiction from a Pope, if Pius XII was the last pope, there are no bishops with ordinary jurisdiction.  If there are no bishops with ordinary jurisdiction, there is no hierarchy, and there is Church with four marks.  


Offline DecemRationis

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Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2020, 04:59:38 PM »
Sorry. Attached now.


Offline DecemRationis

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Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2020, 06:47:42 PM »
Since bishops can only receive jurisdiction from a Pope, if Pius XII was the last pope, there are no bishops with ordinary jurisdiction.  If there are no bishops with ordinary jurisdiction, there is no hierarchy, and there is Church with four marks.  
Circular.

You have to assume a certain definition of apostolic - e.g., continuing presence of an "ordinary" raised to the episcopacy by a pope.

But we have validly ordained men with the Catholic faith who were raised to the episcopacy by validly ordained men with the Catholic faith who then have consecrated bishops themselves: e.g., Bishop Williamson.

The apostolic faith is being passed down by successors to the apostles.

I wouldn't lay a wager against the Church understanding the above as the continuance of the apostolic succession - if Christ hasn't first closed out the age before then.

Yeah, that's my take.

If someone gave an orthodox Catholic in 1940 our history of the Catholic Church post Pius XII I wonder what that guy would think of our "take" of the soon to be state of affairs of the Catholic Church.

Re: List of Oldest living Catholic Bishops and Cardinals:
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2020, 11:45:30 AM »

True. And it means that both earn the destruction of the Temple / of the Church (with a few scattered "survivers").

And it does not mean: the faithless "Church" dies like Christ died on the cross (false comparison).

Why would you expect a resurrection, a restoration by supernatural intervention, while there is no indication of any type of repentance at all?
Just because the majority of the "people in the Church" are faithless does not mean the Church is faithless.  The majority of the Jews were faithless but at the time of Christ the Jєωιѕн religion was still the true religion of God.
Saint Athansius says that, "The Church consists of the faithful of Christ even if only a handful".  And God would have spared Sodom and Gomorah if there had only been 5 virtuous people living there.  I think that for the sake of those who ARE still trying their best to be faithful Catholics, God will restore the Church.
But, God knows best and what will actually happen.  So, I rest my case.  Time will tell the truth of the matter.😉