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Author Topic: List being taken for Gov't of names of all Mass Attendees... Advice?  (Read 5262 times)

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Re: List being taken for Gov't of names of all Mass Attendees... Advice?
« Reply #85 on: September 30, 2020, 08:41:07 PM »
The whole point of this thread is the discussion of being put on a "govt list" and/or being potentially persecuted.  None of the things you've listed above have ANY connection to my comment.  You have taken my "risk of death" comment out of context.  I have repeatedly said that, in the context of persecution, yes, one would have the obligation to attend mass, even if death were a possibility.  Catholic history is full of examples of this.
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Assuming a catholic was healthy and lived in close proximity to a mass, the govt passing a law which prohibited mass would NOT EXEMPT one from their sunday obligation.  Govt laws do NOT overrule the 3rd commandment.  If you have to pay a fine to attend mass, you do it.  If you have to go to jail to attend mass, you do it.  If you have to suffer martydom to attend mass, you do it.  What kind of Catholic goes to mass "when he can"?  That's not catholic thinking.
I think you may be getting away from my original concern. It is not so much my fear of being persecuted that I do not want to be on this government list that is secretly being kept. It is that I do not want to comply with Socialistic, Communistic, anti-Christ the King rules that are unjustly enacted by our government. Ideally, these laws would be opposed by the clergy and the bishops. But in this case, the clergy and bishops are going right along with the increasing Communist tactics. Where do we as faithful draw the line and refuse to comply? If our priests and bishops are not standing up for Christ the King, when does it fall to us to just say no! That the laws of the Church are higher than those of an unjust, tyrannical ruler. Aquinas would agree that these laws do not need to be followed. But if our priest is following the governor's unjust law, what then? 
I agree that government laws do not overrule the 3rd Commandment. But when our pastors are complying with these government laws where and when do we finally draw the line? I do not know the answers to these questions. That is why I appreciate all the responses on both sides. It is a very difficult situation. 

Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: List being taken for Gov't of names of all Mass Attendees... Advice?
« Reply #86 on: September 30, 2020, 09:39:39 PM »

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I do not want to be on this government list that is secretly being kept.
Lists have been kept before you were born, so it's too late for that.  With the advent of the internet, it's WAY too late for that.
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It is that I do not want to comply with Socialistic, Communistic, anti-Christ the King rules that are unjustly enacted by our government.
I hear ya.  Communism only works when there are plenty of "useful idiots" (i.e. the lady at your chapel taking names) who enforce/comply with bad laws.  Our fight today is not against the govt, but against the stupidity and naivety of the overwhelming number of sheeple.  I don't yet have an answer for how to fight against the network of "tattletales" who are everywhere.  That's why communism works.
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Ideally, these laws would be opposed by the clergy and the bishops. But in this case, the clergy and bishops are going right along with the increasing Communist tactics. Where do we as faithful draw the line and refuse to comply?
By "drawing the line" with refusing to attend Mass, in protest of your liberal chapel, then the devil has already won.  Getting people to stop praying, or to get mad at God, or to lose their Faith - this is the goal of the Commies and the devil.  Not attending Mass solves nothing.
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It would be like a person who protests a grocery store's food rationing program by not eating.  What does that solve?
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If our priests and bishops are not standing up for Christ the King, when does it fall to us to just say no! That the laws of the Church are higher than those of an unjust, tyrannical ruler. Aquinas would agree that these laws do not need to be followed. But if our priest is following the governor's unjust law, what then? 
Find a different priest/chapel.  Until then, accept the fact that America is no longer a free country.  Accept the fact that we live in a police state.  Come to grips with the reality that we are slaves and the communistic govt is growing in power.  ...Once you accept this fact, then you can calm down and ask yourself:  "Ok, what is the solution to Communism, and to evil rulers and to anti-Church leaders?"  Answer:  PRAYER!  Especially the MASS!  So you attend Mass (while you can) in the best way possible and pray to God to find a new chapel, if possible.
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I agree that government laws do not overrule the 3rd Commandment. But when our pastors are complying with these government laws where and when do we finally draw the line?
You can't draw the line on being put on a list.  I mean, in the realm of communist rules and laws, this is nothing.  You should be worried about being put on a train to a FEMA camp, never to be heard from again.  Or worried about the requirements for a "mark", in order to buy food.  Being put on a list?  Come on, get real, this is small peanuts compared to what might be coming down the pipe.  Buckle up!  Pray hard!  Unfortunately, the ride's just beginning...


Re: List being taken for Gov't of names of all Mass Attendees... Advice?
« Reply #87 on: October 01, 2020, 04:43:40 AM »
The whole thread is about persecution.  You're right, I don't know what you're talking about.
Riiight.  Even the OP had to set you straight.  You not only "didn't know" what I was talking about but you didn't know what the OP was talking about. Before you start wagging your finger, you should probably make sure you understand what others are clearly saying.   

Re: List being taken for Gov't of names of all Mass Attendees... Advice?
« Reply #88 on: October 01, 2020, 04:48:32 AM »
I think you may be getting away from my original concern. It is not so much my fear of being persecuted that I do not want to be on this government list that is secretly being kept. It is that I do not want to comply with Socialistic, Communistic, anti-Christ the King rules that are unjustly enacted by our government. Ideally, these laws would be opposed by the clergy and the bishops. But in this case, the clergy and bishops are going right along with the increasing Communist tactics. Where do we as faithful draw the line and refuse to comply? If our priests and bishops are not standing up for Christ the King, when does it fall to us to just say no! That the laws of the Church are higher than those of an unjust, tyrannical ruler. Aquinas would agree that these laws do not need to be followed. But if our priest is following the governor's unjust law, what then?
I agree that government laws do not overrule the 3rd Commandment. But when our pastors are complying with these government laws where and when do we finally draw the line? I do not know the answers to these questions. That is why I appreciate all the responses on both sides. It is a very difficult situation.
Yes, it is scandalous. 

None of us have the answers to the questions either.  That's why I have been repeatedly asking for the application of Church teaching to our current circuмstances.  As I said in an earlier post, in the mean time, I would check out another chapel even though it is farther.  

Offline Stubborn

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Re: List being taken for Gov't of names of all Mass Attendees... Advice?
« Reply #89 on: October 01, 2020, 05:15:24 AM »
I agree that government laws do not overrule the 3rd Commandment. But when our pastors are complying with these government laws where and when do we finally draw the line? I do not know the answers to these questions. That is why I appreciate all the responses on both sides. It is a very difficult situation.
The Third Commandment to keep Sunday holy is Divine Law, our obligation to go to Mass is an ecclesiastical law, it is called a Precept of the Church, it is the first of the 6 Precepts of the Church which makes it our obligation to go to Mass under pain of mortal sin, but it is not a Divine Law.

Pax is right in that our assistance at Mass is a very, very serious obligation because of what the Mass is, which is why the Church made our attendance of it obligatory under pain of mortal sin. We are *not* obliged to attend the NO, rather, we are obliged to *not* attend  the NO because of what *it* is.  

But none of that applies here, because while the taking of names for the government should never be allowed, much less with the approval of trad pastors, it is really only pure intimidation on the part of the commie government, and please note that only some people will be intimidated by it, others will only be irritated, some will blow it off completely while going to Mass without any issue at all. I would say find somewhere else to go and don't let them intimidate you to the point that it makes you stay away from the Mass in the mean time.