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Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Against the Heresies on July 23, 2021, 02:05:36 AM

Title: Letter from Father Pagliarani about the motu proprio “Traditionis custodes”
Post by: Against the Heresies on July 23, 2021, 02:05:36 AM
Source: https://fsspx.news/en/news-events/news/letter-father-pagliarani-about-motu-proprio-%E2%80%9Ctraditionis-custodes%E2%80%9D-67623

Quote
Dear members and friends of the Priestly Society of Saint Pius X,
The motu proprio Traditionis custodes and the letter that accompanied it have caused a profound upheaval in the so-called traditionalist movement. We can point out, quite logically, that the era of the hermeneutics of continuity, with its equivocations, illusions and impossible efforts, is radically over – swept aside with a wave of a sleeve. These clear-cut measures do not directly affect the Society of Saint Pius X. However, they must be an occasion for us to reflect deeply on the situation. To do so, it is necessary to step back and ask ourselves a question that is both old and new: Why is the Tridentine Mass still the apple of discord after fifty years?
First of all, we must remember that the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is the continuation in time of the most bitter struggle that has ever existed: the battle between the Kingdom of God and the kingdom of Satan. This combat culminated at Calvary in the triumph of Our Blessed Lord. It was for this struggle and it was for this victory that he became incarnate. Since Our Lord’s victory was through the Cross and through His Precious Blood, it is understandable that its perpetuation will also be marked by conflicts and contradictions. Every Catholic is called to this combat. Our Lord reminded us of this when He said that He came “to bring the sword upon the earth” (Matt. 10:34). It is not surprising that the Mass, which perfectly expresses Our Lord’s definitive victory over sin through His atoning Sacrifice, is itself a sign of contradiction.
But why has the Mass become a sign of contradiction within the Church itself? The answer is simple and increasingly clear. After fifty years, the various elements that confirm the answer have become obvious to all well informed Catholics: the Tridentine Mass expresses and conveys a conception of Christian life – and consequently, a conception of the Catholic Church – that is absolutely incompatible with the ecclesiology that emerged from the Second Vatican Council. The problem is not simply liturgical, aesthetic or purely technical. The problem is simultaneously doctrinal, moral, spiritual, ecclesiological and liturgical. In a nutshell, it is a problem that affects all aspects of the Church’s life, without exception. It is a question of faith.
On one side is the Mass of All Times. It is the standard of a Church that defies the world and is certain of victory, for its battle is nothing less that the continuation of the battle that Our Blessed Lord waged to destroy sin and to destroy the kingdom of Satan. It is by the Mass and through the Mass that Our Lord enlists Catholic souls into His ranks, by sharing with them both His Cross and His victory. From all this follows a fundamentally militant conception of Christian life that is characterised by two elements: a spirit of sacrifice and an unwavering supernatural hope.
On the other side stands the Mass of Paul VI. It is an authentic expression of a Church that wants to live in harmony with the world and that lends an ear to the world’s demands. It represents a Church that, in the final analysis, no longer needs to fight against the world because it no longer has anything to reproach the world. Here is a Church that no longer has anything to teach the world because it listens to the powers of the world. It is a Church that no longer needs the Sacrifice of Our Blessed Lord because, having lost the notion of sin, it no longer has anything for which to atone. Here is a Church that no longer has the mission of restoring the universal kingship of Our Lord Jesus Christ, because it wants to make its contribution to the creation on this earth of a better world that is freer, more egalitarian and more eco-responsible – and all this with purely human means. This humanist mission that the men of the Church have given themselves must necessarily be matched by a liturgy that is equally humanist and emptied of any notion of sacredness.
This battle that has been waged for the past fifty years, which has just seen a highly significant event on July 16th, is not a simple war between two rites: it is indeed a war between two different and opposing conceptions of the Catholic Church and of Christian life – conceptions that are absolutely irreducible and incompatible with each other. In paraphrasing Saint Augustin, one could say that the two Masses have built two cities: the Mass of All Times has built a Christian city; the New Mass seeks to build a humanist and secular city.
Since Almighty God has allowed all this, it is certainly for a greater good. Firstly for ourselves, who have the undeserved good fortune of knowing the Tridentine Mass and who can benefit from it! We possess a treasure with a value we do not always appreciate, and which we perhaps preserve too much out of simple habit. When something precious is attacked or scorned, we begin to appreciate better its true value. May this “shock”, provoked by the harshness of the official texts of July 16th, serve to renew, deepen and rediscover our attachment to the Tridentine Mass! This Mass – our Mass – must really be for us like the pearl of great price in the Gospel, for which we are ready to renounce everything, for which we are ready to sell everything. He who is not prepared to shed his blood for this Mass is not worthy to celebrate it! He who is not prepared to give up everything to protect it is not worthy to attend it!
This should be our first reaction to these events that have just shaken the Catholic Church. Our reaction, as Catholic priests and as Catholic laity, must be profound and more far-reaching than all those feeble and sometimes hopeless commentaries.
Our Blessed Lord certainly has another objective in mind in allowing this new attack on the Tridentine Mass. No one can doubt that in recent years many priests and faithful have discovered this Mass, and that through it they have encountered a new spiritual and moral horizon, which has opened the door to the sanctification of their souls. The latest measures taken against the Mass will force these souls to draw all the consequences of what they have discovered: they must now choose – with all the elements of discernment that are at their disposal – what is necessary for every well-informed Catholic conscience. Many souls will find themselves faced with an important choice that will affect their faith, because – and let us say it once more – the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is the supreme expression of a doctrinal and moral universe. It is therefore a question of choosing the Catholic faith in its entirety and through it, choosing Our Lord Jesus Christ, with His Cross, His Sacrifice and His universal kingship. It is a matter of choosing His Precious Blood, of imitating the Crucified One and of following Him to the end, by a complete, rigorous and coherent fidelity.
The Society of Saint Pius X has the duty to assist all those souls who are currently in dismay and are confused. Firstly, we have the duty to offer them the certitude that the Tridentine Mass can never disappear from the face of the earth. This is an absolutely necessary sign of hope. Moreover, each of us, whether priest or faithful, must extend a warm helping hand to them, for he who has no desire to share the riches he enjoys is, in all truth, unworthy of possessing them. Only in this way will we truly love souls and show our love for the Church. For every soul that we win to Our Blessed Lord’s Cross, and to the immense love that He manifested through His Sacrifice, will be a soul truly won to His Church and to the charity that animates His Church, which must be ours, especially at this present time.
It is to Our Lady of Sorrows that we entrust these intentions. It is to her that we address our prayers, since no one has penetrated deeper than Our Blessed Lady, the mystery of the Sacrifice of Our Lord Jesus Christ and of His victory on the Cross. There is no one greater than Mary who has been so intimately associated with His sufferings and His triumph. It is in her hands that Our Blessed Lord has placed the whole Catholic Church. It is therefore to her that the most precious thing in the Catholic Church has been entrusted: the Testament of Our Lord Jesus Christ – the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
Menzingen, July 22nd, 2021.
 Feast of Saint Mary Magdalen.
 Don Davide Pagliarani, Superior General.
Title: Re: Letter from Father Pagliarani about the motu proprio “Traditionis custodes”
Post by: Against the Heresies on July 23, 2021, 02:26:01 AM
 
Solid, but incomplete. A few comments on the theological implications of the Pope's wiping away the entire liturgical tradition would have been useful. Also, some information on what this means for the future relationship of the SSPX with the conciliar church. Mention could also have been made of the Archbishop, his foresight and bravery.
Title: Re: Letter from Father Pagliarani about the motu proprio “Traditionis custodes”
Post by: Matthew on July 23, 2021, 04:12:55 AM
The little bird who told Sean that this official statement was going to be released today, and was going to be "pious", apparently knew what he was talking about.

He probably has connections in the SSPX; my best guess would be he's a Resistance cleric.

Whoever it was, turns out he was spot-on.
Title: Re: Letter from Father Pagliarani about the motu proprio “Traditionis custodes”
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on July 23, 2021, 05:36:55 AM
During the first lσcкdσωn, people left the novus Ordo to trad chapels that remained open  because they had enough.  Bergolio is upset by this and restricts Mass in Rome then  around the world. He has to please his masters of the UN.  The devil hates Latin.  


How can we trust any Catholic hierarchy that promotes the demonic jab??? Only the true  Pious would reject evil including the jab.

Why would anyone give obedience to a man in Rome who rejects Jesus Christ by worshipping false idols?  Even young children  know the 10 commandments.  





Title: Re: Letter from Father Pagliarani about the motu proprio “Traditionis custodes”
Post by: Ladislaus on July 23, 2021, 05:59:21 AM
Finally someone recognizing that the core problem with Vatican II is its ecclesiology.  But mentioned only in passing.

Nice that he says that the SSPX is a guarantee (naturally speaking) that the True Mass will not disappear ... but we were one Bishop Williamson interview away from their having surrendered this guarantee.

Apology to Bishop Williamson and the Resistance is required.

And no mention whatsoever of the evil perpetrated by Bergoglio, just a pious reflection on the Mass.

Bergoglio basically excommunicated Tradition.  So what are the ecclesiological ramifications of THAT ... eh, Father?

Title: Re: Letter from Father Pagliarani about the motu proprio “Traditionis custodes”
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on July 23, 2021, 06:00:19 AM
Bergolio does nothing to restrict mortal sin.

Catholic hierarchy are basically politicians telling you one thing and doing another.

Catholic Church has been excommunicated since communist created Vatican II. 
Title: Re: Letter from Father Pagliarani about the motu proprio “Traditionis custodes”
Post by: SeanJohnson on July 23, 2021, 07:26:21 AM
Full commentary coming later (first article I’ll have written in several months), but for now, I agree with Against the Heresies:

What is here is excellent, but nothing regarding the implications of what has been written (though the text is bursting with implications one would think naturally and logically follow or accompany such reflections, we don’t know if the logical deductions will be made).

But what is crystal clear is that Fr. Pagliarani is not cut from the same cloth as Bishop Fellay, but more on that tonight...
Title: Re: Letter from Father Pagliarani about the motu proprio “Traditionis custodes”
Post by: Mr G on July 23, 2021, 07:27:56 AM
"The Society of Saint Pius X has the duty to assist all those souls who are currently in dismay and are confused. Firstly, we have the duty to offer them the certitude that the Tridentine Mass can never disappear from the face of the earth. This is an absolutely necessary sign of hope." ..."Moreover, each of us, whether priest or faithful, must extend a warm helping hand to them, for he who has no desire to share the riches he enjoys is, in all truth, unworthy of possessing them."


I get a feeling this situation will lead to a Prelature by fact if not later by law.

My warning to SSPX; make sure you educate the new comers before letting them run lose among the faithful. 

Title: Re: Letter from Father Pagliarani about the motu proprio “Traditionis custodes”
Post by: Ladislaus on July 23, 2021, 07:35:01 AM
But what is crystal clear is that Fr. Pagliarani is not cut from the same cloth as Bishop Fellay, but more on that tonight...

I'm not so sure.  It's only the circuмstances that have changed.  How else could any Traditional Catholic react?
Title: Re: Letter from Father Pagliarani about the motu proprio “Traditionis custodes”
Post by: SeanJohnson on July 23, 2021, 07:46:44 AM
I'm not so sure.  It's only the circuмstances that have changed.  How else could any Traditional Catholic react?

I believe it’s both:

Circuмstances forcing a default response/reaction, but also different doctrine.

Everyone can disagree of course, but I’ll explain later, and we’ll see what people think.
Title: Re: Letter from Father Pagliarani about the motu proprio “Traditionis custodes”
Post by: DigitalLogos on July 23, 2021, 08:07:45 AM

Quote
the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is the supreme expression of a doctrinal and moral universe. It is therefore a question of choosing the Catholic faith in its entirety and through it, choosing Our Lord Jesus Christ, with His Cross, His Sacrifice and His universal kingship. It is a matter of choosing His Precious Blood, of imitating the Crucified One and of following Him to the end, by a complete, rigorous and coherent fidelity.
Beautifully put, and precisely what needs to be said contra those "conservatives" of the NO who insist that the Novus Ordo Missae is just as meritorious as the true Mass.
Title: Re: Letter from Father Pagliarani about the motu proprio “Traditionis custodes”
Post by: Ladislaus on July 23, 2021, 08:55:52 AM
I believe it’s both:

Circuмstances forcing a default response/reaction, but also different doctrine.

Everyone can disagree of course, but I’ll explain later, and we’ll see what people think.

Sure.  I must say I haven't studied Father Pagliarani's theology, so I'm just looking at this out of context as by itself inconclusive.  I could see even +Fellay making a similar statement given this MP.
Title: Re: Letter from Father Pagliarani about the motu proprio “Traditionis custodes”
Post by: Pax Vobis on July 23, 2021, 11:42:22 AM
Quote
it is indeed a war between two different and opposing conceptions of the Catholic Church and of Christian life

This letter was very wimpy, indirect and full of partial truths.  The above sentence sums it all up.  Total garbage of a letter.
.
The new-sspx has failed to realize (or won't speak clearly for various reasons) that those who oppose the True Church are godless, atheistic, communists.  These evil, satanic men don't have an "opposing view of the Church" (which implies they are Christian), they are opposed to the Church existing at all.  They want to DESTROY Christianity, not simply change certain aspects of it.  They are entirely opposed to Christ, not simply wanting to "fix" broken aspects of the Church (i.e. like protestants proclaim).
.
This letter speaks of the age-old battle between satan and the Church, but then waters down the implications of the battle (Trads vs Modernists) as if it's merely a battle of perspective, as if the Modernists actually have good-will, as if the Modernists want to reform the Church. 
.
Pope St Pius X knew the Modernists wanted to destroy the Church, because they hate God.  He told us that "Modernists should be beaten with fists."  It's as if the new-sspx is being loaded onto a Communist Russian railcar, headed for a Siberian death camp, and they are telling everyone to calm down, because the differences with the communist party "can still be worked out".  They have yet to understand, or won't preach the truth to their faithful, of the danger these men pose to the Church and souls.   Oh, the naivety.  Oh, the stupidity.  
Title: Re: Letter from Father Pagliarani about the motu proprio “Traditionis custodes”
Post by: AspiringToHeaven on July 23, 2021, 11:53:22 AM
Thus the softening of the SSPX continues. Pagliarani says:

"...is not a simple war between two rites: it is indeed a war between two different and opposing conceptions of the Catholic Church and of Christian life – conceptions that are absolutely irreducible and incompatible with each other."

Yet it’s NOT a war between "two different conceptions" of Christianity, but between Christianity and anti-Christianity, between Christianity and Modernism, which is the "synthesis of all heresies." Of ALL heresies.

It's a war between heaven and all the powers of hell, with Francis fighting in no sense for heaven but entirely for Satan, not simply for "a different conception" of Christianity.

Definitely totally incompatible. Hence one is definitely not Christian.

Church vs. Antichurch

Heaven vs. Hell

God vs. Satan

So unfashionably dualist, I know!

By the way, notice that nowhere in the letter does the word “Modernist“ appear.
Title: Re: Letter from Father Pagliarani about the motu proprio “Traditionis custodes”
Post by: Meg on July 23, 2021, 12:31:53 PM
By the way, notice that nowhere in the letter does the word “Modernist“ appear.

I noticed that too. No mention of Vatican ll either.
Title: Re: Letter from Father Pagliarani about the motu proprio “Traditionis custodes”
Post by: Carissima on July 23, 2021, 01:27:14 PM
Perhaps Fr Pagliarani isn’t going to sound like Lefebvre with his strong condemnations, because the battlefield has changed in the last 30 years. Believe it or not there are a lot of non-Catholics and Protestants watching what is going on this time. Many of them wanting to join the Church and fight for Tradition with us. Some are newly joined. 
And just as important are the Novus Ordo Catholics, that group didn’t exist before as they do today. Many of them now waking up to this post-conciliar nightmare and wondering where to go from here. And so perhaps the language of these statements is going to be different than what the resistance is used to seeing.
Because the fact is, many are coming in late (and most wouldn’t know who ‘the resistance’ was) but that doesn’t mean they don’t love the truth or want to fight for it too. 
Better late than never, right?
Title: Re: Letter from Father Pagliarani about the motu proprio “Traditionis custodes”
Post by: Meg on July 23, 2021, 01:46:39 PM
Perhaps Fr Pagliarani isn’t going to sound like Lefebvre with his strong condemnations, because the battlefield has changed in the last 30 years. Believe it or not there are a lot of non-Catholics and Protestants watching what is going on this time. Many of them wanting to join the Church and fight for Tradition with us. Some are newly joined.
And just as important are the Novus Ordo Catholics, that group didn’t exist before as they do today. Many of them now waking up to this post-conciliar nightmare and wondering where to go from here. And so perhaps the language of these statements is going to be different than what the resistance is used to seeing.
Because the fact is, many are coming in late (and most wouldn’t know who ‘the resistance’ was) but that doesn’t mean they don’t love the truth or want to fight for it too.
Better late than never, right?

Would you be able to say how it is that you know many non-Catholics and Protestants want to join the Church and fight for Tradition? It's not that I don't believe it exactly, but that I haven't seen any indication of it. Or that there are Novus Ordo Catholics are waking up to the post-conciliar nightmare and wondering where to go. If true, this would be a good thing. Maybe you have access to sources that most of us haven't yet seen.
Title: Re: Letter from Father Pagliarani about the motu proprio “Traditionis custodes”
Post by: Cera on July 23, 2021, 01:49:44 PM
I liked this part of the OP:

(The) Mass of Paul VI represents a Church that, in the final analysis, no longer needs to fight against the world because it no longer has anything to reproach the world. Here is a Church that no longer has anything to teach the world because it listens to the powers of the world. It is a Church that no longer needs the Sacrifice of Our Blessed Lord because, having lost the notion of sin, it no longer has anything for which to atone. Here is a Church that no longer has the mission of restoring the universal kingship of Our Lord Jesus Christ, because it wants to make its contribution to the creation on this earth of a better world that is freer, more egalitarian and more eco- responsible – and all this with purely human means. This humanist mission that the men of the Church have given themselves must necessarily be matched by a liturgy that is equally humanist and emptied of any notion of sacredness.
Title: Re: Letter from Father Pagliarani about the motu proprio “Traditionis custodes”
Post by: Maria Auxiliadora on July 23, 2021, 02:03:14 PM
"The Society of Saint Pius X has the duty to assist all those souls who are currently in dismay and are confused. Firstly, we have the duty to offer them the certitude that the Tridentine Mass can never disappear from the face of the earth. This is an absolutely necessary sign of hope." ..."Moreover, each of us, whether priest or faithful, must extend a warm helping hand to them, for he who has no desire to share the riches he enjoys is, in all truth, unworthy of possessing them."


I get a feeling this situation will lead to a Prelature by fact if not later by law.

My warning to SSPX; make sure you educate the new comers before letting them run lose among the faithful.

Exactly! It sounded to me like a call to unite "the clans" under the Prelature. Una Voce Malta warned that even the SSPX would only be permitted to keep the 1962 missal for a couple of years or so and then to the new missal every one.

Cardinal Burke said yesterday that there is a mistranslation from the Italian on Art. 1 of the MP. The word "unique" should be ONLY. That means that Art.1 considers the N.O. the ONLY expression of the Roman Rite. If Francis gives them the Prelature now, there is only one direction they are going.
Title: Re: Letter from Father Pagliarani about the motu proprio “Traditionis custodes”
Post by: AspiringToHeaven on July 23, 2021, 04:48:09 PM
Louie V. has just posted this:

Traditionis Custodes: The SSPX makes its position plain (https://akacatholic.com/traditionis-custodes-the-sspx-responds/)

Quote:

At last, the question posed at the conclusion to yesterday’s post has been answered: 

Will the Society of St. Pius X respond to the Motu Proprio by speaking the plain truth about the utter invalidity of Vatican Council II; the present claimant to the Chair of St. Peter; the institution that he heads and the bogus liturgy that it celebrates, or will they play the shrinking violet, subtly encouraging Our Lord’s enemies as they usher the naive all the way to Hell?  

….

What began with a bang, ended with a whimper. Now we know, the Society of St. Pius X is content to play the shrinking violet, subtly encouraging Our Lord’s enemies as they usher the naive all the way to Hell.
Title: Re: Letter from Father Pagliarani about the motu proprio “Traditionis custodes”
Post by: AspiringToHeaven on July 23, 2021, 04:49:47 PM
Perhaps Fr Pagliarani isn’t going to sound like Lefebvre with his strong condemnations, because the battlefield has changed in the last 30 years. Believe it or not there are a lot of non-Catholics and Protestants watching what is going on this time. Many of them wanting to join the Church and fight for Tradition with us. Some are newly joined.
And just as important are the Novus Ordo Catholics, that group didn’t exist before as they do today. Many of them now waking up to this post-conciliar nightmare and wondering where to go from here. And so perhaps the language of these statements is going to be different than what the resistance is used to seeing.
Because the fact is, many are coming in late (and most wouldn’t know who ‘the resistance’ was) but that doesn’t mean they don’t love the truth or want to fight for it too.
Better late than never, right?

We need aggiornamento, in other words. Carissima here speaks just like a rank Modernist.
Title: Re: Letter from Father Pagliarani about the motu proprio “Traditionis custodes”
Post by: richard on July 23, 2021, 05:06:30 PM
Here is what Non-Possumus has to say about it.

Not to mention the Pope even once ! 
The Fraternity is trapped. He allowed himself to be locked up by accepting, without expressing reservations, Bergoglio's gifts. 
Now he feels that he cannot criticize his great "benefactor" and fears that he will be taken away. The SSPX is now afraid. Fear that the Vatican will revoke the authorization to confess ... Fear that the marriage permission will be canceled ... Fear of upsetting Bishop Huonder (that declared friend of Francis who lives in a priory of the Fraternity) .. Fear of new excommunications ... Fear of being crucified again by the enemies of Christ.
The cunning Rome led her into a swamp in which it is not possible to advance or go back: she cannot reach an agreement and neither can (she does not want to) return to the former attitude of heroic confrontation before the destroyers of the faith. 
The SSPX has taken the bait that chilled its charity, made it ambiguous and cowed it. The flame slowly goes out as time plays in favor of the Roman modernists.
This was a great (and perhaps the last) opportunity to speak loud and clear again to liberal and apostate Rome, to return to the line of martyrdom left by Monsignor Lefebvre; but -as we see- the Fraternity wasted it.
We will have to wait for a statement from Monsignor Viganò to read a manly criticism of the author of the abominable motu proprio of July 16. 
Title: Re: Letter from Father Pagliarani about the motu proprio “Traditionis custodes”
Post by: SeanJohnson on July 23, 2021, 05:21:19 PM
I thought the letter was pretty solid, as far as it went.

It just didn’t go far enough (eg., several implications would seem to follow from what it did say, but Fr. didn’t go into any of them).

As others have noted, no references to Lefebvre, or how this MP affects the ralliement of the SSPX.  No tip of the hat to the Resistance or Williamson for saving the SSPX.  

All that said, it’s clear that Fr. P is 3 notches to the right of +Fellay (who no longer would speak of a conciliar religion opposing a Catholic religion, or of churchmen forsaking the salvific mission of the Church for a humanist one, or of the conciliar ecclesiology representing a rupture with the preconciliar ecclesiology, etc.).

That was all forbidden under +Fellay.

Pretty obvious to me that he was greatly influenced by Fr. Alvaro Calderon while in Argentina, as he notes humanism as the root problem of the Council, just as Calderon does in “Prometheus.”

What I want to see is whether, now that the accord is out of reach, will the branding muzzle come off?

If not, it will prove the Non Possumus assessment correct.
Title: Re: Letter from Father Pagliarani about the motu proprio “Traditionis custodes”
Post by: SeanJohnson on July 23, 2021, 06:47:53 PM
Pretty obvious to me that he was greatly influenced by Fr. Alvaro Calderon while in Argentina, as he notes humanism as the root problem of the Council, just as Calderon does in “Prometheus.”

“Interesting” that Prometheus is released just 2-3 days before the MP?

🤔
Title: Re: Letter from Father Pagliarani about the motu proprio “Traditionis custodes”
Post by: Kazimierz on July 23, 2021, 07:33:56 PM
Being an optimistically pessimistic misanthropic ursine by nature - albeit highly selective in my applied misanthropy - I see the neoSSPX about to reap the rewards of its own version of Operation Barbarossa. Trying to reach an accord with the conciliarists MIGHT (shucks a bit optimism here after all!) end up as well as the Werhmacht did in Mother Russia.
Title: Re: Letter from Father Pagliarani about the motu proprio “Traditionis custodes”
Post by: Carissima on July 23, 2021, 07:42:37 PM
We need aggiornamento, in other words. Carissima here speaks just like a rank Modernist.
You’re a newbie so let me help you. 
It isn’t modernist for Catholics to extend their hands to others, it is called ‘Charity’. 
Are you offended I didn't include the Sede’s?
Title: Re: Letter from Father Pagliarani about the motu proprio “Traditionis custodes”
Post by: AspiringToHeaven on July 23, 2021, 07:45:29 PM
You’re a newbie so let me help you.
It isn’t modernist for Catholics to extend their hands to others, it is called ‘Charity’.
Are you offended I didn't include the Sedes

I’m far from a newbie here. Only my name is new.
Title: Re: Letter from Father Pagliarani about the motu proprio “Traditionis custodes”
Post by: Kazimierz on July 23, 2021, 08:46:30 PM
Caritas is indeed paramount of The Three. Sticking your hand though to an animal that wants to chomp off your hand, for starters, is imprudent to say the least. Modernism as the Conciliarists who entrenched thereof, is the animal, a spawn of Satan.

Fratres, sobrii estote et vigilate,
quia adversarius vester, diabolus
tamquam leo rugiens circuit quaerens quem devoret,
cui resistite fortes in fide.
Title: Re: Letter from Father Pagliarani about the motu proprio “Traditionis custodes”
Post by: Carissima on July 24, 2021, 12:13:16 AM
Would you be able to say how it is that you know many non-Catholics and Protestants want to join the Church and fight for Tradition? It's not that I don't believe it exactly, but that I haven't seen any indication of it. Or that there are Novus Ordo Catholics are waking up to the post-conciliar nightmare and wondering where to go. If true, this would be a good thing. Maybe you have access to sources that most of us haven't yet seen.
Sure Meg,
Here is Vigano earlier today
“I intend to offer it to the reading and reflection of all the faithful, Catholics and also non-Catholics, so that each one can draw from it prophetic clarity and apostolic courage in the very hard war that we are all called to face, a war whose inevitable outcome will be the triumph of the Bride of Christ over the unleashing of the infernal powers.”

Title: Re: Letter from Father Pagliarani about the motu proprio “Traditionis custodes”
Post by: Carissima on July 24, 2021, 12:19:56 AM
Sure Meg,
Here is Vigano earlier today
“I intend to offer it to the reading and reflection of all the faithful, Catholics and also non-Catholics, so that each one can draw from it prophetic clarity and apostolic courage in the very hard war that we are all called to face, a war whose inevitable outcome will be the triumph of the Bride of Christ over the unleashing of the infernal powers.”
Sorry for the two separate posts and large font,
But I also wanted to add that for a few years now I have been reading comments on youtube videos on Taylor Marshall, Church Militant and others. It is amazing how many times I’ve read non-Catholics or Protestants say they’ve been watching and are drawn to the Catholic Faith, or say they have converted recently. Or are entering and give the exact date they are looking forward to. And Specifically TRADITION. It is such a beautiful thing and has given me much hope for the Church. For how many have we seen lose the Faith, there are many more finding it. I am reminded of the Scripture passage, ‘But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound’.
Title: Re: Letter from Father Pagliarani about the motu proprio “Traditionis custodes”
Post by: 2Vermont on July 24, 2021, 12:12:23 PM
Here is Vigano earlier today
“I intend to offer it to the reading and reflection of all the faithful, Catholics and also non-Catholics, so that each one can draw from it prophetic clarity and apostolic courage in the very hard war that we are all called to face, a war whose inevitable outcome will be the triumph of the Bride of Christ over the unleashing of the infernal powers.”
Yes, I saw this posted elsewhere.  I'm still not convinced this is actually Vigano's words, and I'm still questioning why anyone would connect the words "non-Catholic" with "faithful" and "apostolic courage".
Title: Re: Letter from Father Pagliarani about the motu proprio “Traditionis custodes”
Post by: forlorn on July 24, 2021, 12:22:48 PM
Yes, I saw this posted elsewhere.  I'm still not convinced this is actually Vigano's words, and I'm still questioning why anyone would connect the words "non-Catholic" with "faithful" and "apostolic courage".
Maybe the punctuation got screwed up in translation.

He could've meant "all the faithful Catholics, and also non-Catholics".