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Author Topic: Let us not forget Fr Robinson's (SSPX) pagan cosmology  (Read 3276 times)

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Offline cassini

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Re: Let us not forget Fr Robinson's (SSPX) pagan cosmology
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2018, 06:26:41 AM »
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  • Very interesting GlasG4e, having rejected the astronomy of the senses, Leo XIII sets up an observatory to continue the work of the Pythagorean heretics under the guise of 'astronomy.', for that is what it did.

    Two years later, 1893, the Pope produced Providentissimus Deus.

    But then came a paragraph in Pope Leo XIII’s instructions reminiscent of the type of thing Galileo wrote in 1615 when he was attempting to convince all how to interpret the Scriptures heliocentrically. Galileo wrote:

    Galileo: From these things it follows as a necessary consequence that, since the Holy Ghost did not intend to teach us whether heaven moves or stands still, whether its shape is spherical or like a discus or extended in a plane, nor whether the Earth is located at its center or off to one side, then so much the less was it intended to settle for us any other conclusion of the same kind. And the motion or rest of the Earth and the sun is so closely linked with the things just named, that without a determination of the one, neither side can be taken in the other matters. Now if the Holy Spirit has purposely neglected to teach us propositions of this sort as irrelevant to the highest goal (that is, to our salvation), how can anyone affirm that it is obligatory to take sides on them, that one belief is required by faith, while the other side is erroneous? Can an opinion be heretical and yet have no concern with the salvation of souls.’--- Galileo’s Letter to Christina, 1615.

    Now let us see what Providentissimus Deus said next:

    ’18: To understand how just is the rule here formulated we must remember, first, that the sacred writers, or to speak more accurately, the Holy Ghost “Who spoke by them, did not intend to teach men these things (that is to say, the essential nature of the things of the visible universe), things in no way profitable unto salvation.” (St Augustine) Hence they did not seek to penetrate the secrets of nature, but rather described and dealt with things in more or less figurative language, or in terms which were commonly used at the time, and which in many instances are in daily use at this day, even by the most eminent men of science. Ordinary speech primarily and properly describes what comes under the senses; and somewhat in the same way the sacred writers - as the Angelic Doctor also reminds us – “went by what sensibly appeared,” or put down what God, speaking to men, signified, in the way men could understand and were accustomed to [Like ‘sunrise’ and ‘sunset’?]. The unshrinking defence of the Holy Scripture, however, does not require that we should equally uphold all the opinions which each of the Fathers or the more recent interpreters have put forth in explaining it; for it may be that, in commenting on passages where physical matters occur, they have sometimes expressed the ideas of their own times, and thus made statements which in these days have been abandoned as incorrect. Hence, in their interpretations, we must carefully note what they lay down as belonging to faith, or as intimately connected with faith, what they are unanimous in. For “in those things which do not come under the obligation of faith, the Saints were at liberty to hold divergent opinions, just as we ourselves are,” according to the saying of St. Thomas Aquinas. And in another place he says most admirably: “When philosophers are agreed upon a point, and it is not contrary to our faith, it is safer, in my opinion, neither to lay down such a point as a dogma of faith, even though it is perhaps so presented by the philosophers, nor to reject it as against faith, lest we thus give to the wise of this world an occasion of despising our faith.” The Catholic interpreter, although he should show that those facts of natural science which investigators affirm to be now quite certain are not contrary to the Scripture rightly explained, must nevertheless always bear in mind, that much which has been held and proved as certain has afterwards been called in question and rejected.’


    The above was so worded that it was seized by the Catholic (and Protestant) world who used it to support a Galilean exegesis and hermeneutics, a conclusion found everywhere throughout the years after it.

    ‘Similarly, “the sun stood still,” like our “the sun rises,” is a popular method of speaking, and involves the fact that in some way or another – and various ways have been suggested – God Almighty did prolong the hours of light in the case of Joshua; certainly does not necessarily involve inferences which churchmen of the time of Galileo unwisely read into the statement. They, as we have seen, were men of their own time and not in front of it, and they fell into the errors natural to what figured in those days of science. But we should be careful to make use of the better guidance which we have obtained in such utterances as the “Providentissimus Deus” and avoid the mistakes which we can see our predecessors have made and which, indeed, it would have been exceedingly difficult for them to have avoided.’[1]

    ‘Anyone who will compare this [Galileo’s] wonderful letter with the Encyclical Providentissimus Deus of Pope Leo XIII on the study of Holy Scripture will see how near in many places Galileo came to the very words of the Holy Father.’[2]

    ‘But Bellarmine erred in its application, for the theological principles with which Galileo supported his system were merely those afterwards officially adopted and taught us by Pope Leo XIII in his Encyclical, Providentissimus Deus.[3]

    ‘Actually, almost 100 years before Pope John Paul II’s apology, an earlier Pope (Leo XIII) effectively reinstated Galileo in an encyclical dealing with how Catholics should study the Bible. Although Pope Leo XIII does not mention Galileo by name in the encyclical, nevertheless, “In 1893, Pope Leo XIII made honorable amends to Galileo’s memory by basing his encyclical Providentissimus Deus on the principles of exegesis that Galileo had expounded.”’[4]

    ‘On the other hand Galileo was right about heliocentricism. Moreover, some of his theological wanderings eventually found themselves mirrored in several papal encyclicals of the last two centuries. Providentissimus Deus by Pope Leo XIII and Humani Generis by Pope Pius XII, for instance, both have pieces that could have been extracted from Galileo’s Letters to the Grand Duchess Christina… Galileo seems to have won out both on theological as well as scientific grounds…’[5]

    Galileo’s views on the interpretation of scripture were fundamentally derived from St Augustine; but his restatement and development of Augustine’s teaching were destined to be influential in the future. Galileo’s views, expounded in the Letter to Castelli and his Letter to Christina and elsewhere, are in fact close to those expounded three centuries later by Pope Leo XIII, who in his encyclical on the divine inspiration of Holy Scripture [Providentissimus Deus], declared….’ [6]  

    ‘A sort of climax of the hermeneutical aspect of the Galileo affair occurred in 1893 with Pope Leo XIII’s encyclical letter Providentissimus Deus, for this docuмent put forth a view of the relationship between biblical interpretation and scientific investigation that corresponded to the one advanced by Galileo in his letters to Castelli and Christina.’[7]

    ‘Galileo addressed this problem in his famous Letter to Castelli. In its approach to biblical exegesis, the letter ironically anticipates Pope Leo XIII’s encyclical Providentissimus Deus (1893), which pointed out that Scripture often makes use of figurative language and is not meant to teach science. Galileo accepted the inerrancy of Scripture; but he was also mindful of Cardinal Baronius’s quip that the Bible “is intended to teach us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go.” And he pointed out correctly that both St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas taught that the sacred writers in no way meant to teach a system of astronomy.[8]

    ‘When Pope Leo XIII wrote on the importance of science and reason, he essentially embraced the philosophical principles put forth by Galileo, and many statements by Popes and the Church over the years have expressed admiration for Galileo. For example, Galileo was specifically singled out for praise by Pope Pius XII in his address to the International Astronomical Union in 1952.’[9]

    ‘To excite Catholic students to rival non-Catholics in the study of the Scriptures, and at the same time guide their studies, Pope Leo XIII in 1893 published “Providentissimus Deus,” which won the admiration even of Protestants.’[10]


    [1] Sir Bertram Windle: The Church and Science, Catholic Truth Society, 1920, p.81.

    [2] James Brodrick, S.J: The life of Cardinal Bellarmine, Burns Oats, 1928, p.351.

    [3] E.C Messenger: Evolution and Theology, Burns, Oats and Washbourne, 1931.

    [4] D. A. Crombie’s ‘A History of Science from Augustine to Galileo,’ Vol. 2, 1996, p.225.

    [5] J.T. Winschel: Galileo, Victim or Villain, The Angelus, Oct. 2003, p.38.

    [6] Cardinal Cathal Daly: The Minding of Planet Earth, Veritas, 2004, p.68.

    [7] M. A. Finocchiaro: Retrying Galileo, 2007, p.264.


    [9] Vatican Observatory website 2013.

    [10] Newadvent Catholic Encyclopedia: Largest Catholic website in the world, 2013.


    Consider all the above in the light that heliocentrism WaS NEVER PROVEN RIGHT, NOR THE 1616 DECREE PROVEN WRONG, and you will witness Catholicism falling under the spell of intellectual pride and the Galilean REFORMATION.



    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Let us not forget Fr Robinson's (SSPX) pagan cosmology
    « Reply #16 on: March 31, 2018, 03:03:27 PM »
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  • Very interesting GlasG4e, having rejected the astronomy of the senses, Leo XIII sets up an observatory to continue the work of the Pythagorean heretics under the guise of 'astronomy.', for that is what it did.

    ‘On the other hand Galileo was right about heliocentricism. Moreover, some of his theological wanderings eventually found themselves mirrored in several papal encyclicals of the last two centuries. Providentissimus Deus by Pope Leo XIII and Humani Generis by Pope Pius XII, for instance, both have pieces that could have been extracted from Galileo’s Letters to the Grand Duchess Christina… Galileo seems to have won out both on theological as well as scientific grounds…’[5]

    [5] J.T. Winschel: Galileo, Victim or Villain, The Angelus, Oct. 2003, p.38.


    Consider all the above in the light that heliocentrism WaS NEVER PROVEN RIGHT, NOR THE 1616 DECREE PROVEN WRONG, and you will witness Catholicism falling under the spell of intellectual pride and the Galilean REFORMATION.

    Cassini, your well docuмented research and analysis over the years has truly been tremendous.  Perhaps, you could reach out to Robert Sungenis -- if you have not already -- and work with him to bring the sacred truth of geocentrism to a wider audience.  (I personally was greatly distressed at how Dr. Sungenis allowed the original planned central theme of geocentrism for the movie The Principle to be subverted into one of a Hollywood/Catholicism hybrid on the Copernican Principle.  I prayed that the blessing of heaven rain down upon that movie, but when I came to find out how it had been corrupted in certain ways including a modified mini-skirt woman and singing by a different degenerate woman as well as an uncorrected slam dunk on the Church regarding Giordano Bruno, I realized the movie could not be blessed by the Queen of Purity, nor the King of the Universe and of Truth.)

    Dr.  Sungenis suffered a defacto anathematization by the SSPX after he did a much deserved shaming of the Society (in his great work Galileo Was Wrong: The Church Was Right) for its inane cover story article in The Angeluls by the junior high school teacher Winschel that you reference in footnote 5 above.


    Offline aryzia

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    Re: Let us not forget Fr Robinson's (SSPX) pagan cosmology
    « Reply #17 on: March 31, 2018, 03:48:30 PM »
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  • Cassini, your well docuмented research and analysis over the years has truly been tremendous.  Perhaps, you could reach out to Robert Sungenis -- if you have not already -- and work with him to bring the sacred truth of geocentrism to a wider audience.  (I personally was greatly distressed at how Dr. Sungenis allowed the original planned central theme of geocentrism for the movie The Principle to be subverted into one of a Hollywood/Catholicism hybrid on the Copernican Principle.  I prayed that the blessing of heaven rain down upon that movie, but when I came to find out how it had been corrupted in certain ways including a modified mini-skirt woman and singing by a different degenerate woman as well as an uncorrected slam dunk on the Church regarding Giordano Bruno, I realized the movie could not be blessed by the Queen of Purity, nor the King of the Universe and of Truth.)

    Dr.  Sungenis suffered a defacto anathematization by the SSPX after he did a much deserved shaming of the Society (in his great work Galileo Was Wrong: The Church Was Right) for its inane cover story article in The Angeluls by the junior high school teacher Winschel that you reference in footnote 5 above.
    Robert Sungenis uses strictly heliocentric science and scientists to make his point that earth is a stationary globe. He is useless in defending truth against evolution and relativism.

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Let us not forget Fr Robinson's (SSPX) pagan cosmology
    « Reply #18 on: March 31, 2018, 04:51:30 PM »
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  • Robert Sungenis uses strictly heliocentric science and scientists to make his point that earth is a stationary globe. He is useless in defending truth against evolution and relativism.

    That is absolutely not true!   I hope you are simply ignorant and or dis-informed on the matter rather than malicious as well.  Aside from that, perhaps you will tell us your credentials and what exactly you have done to spread and defend the Catholic Faith.  Without knowing more at this point, I would venture to say that Dr. Sungenis has done more good for the promotion and defense of the Catholic Faith than you have or ever will come close to doing.  I don't know if you are a flat earther or not, but I do know that some flat earthers seem absolutely hell bent on destroying Dr. Sungenis' good reputation.  May God have mercy on their souls -- if they repent.

    Offline cassini

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    Re: Let us not forget Fr Robinson's (SSPX) pagan cosmology
    « Reply #19 on: March 31, 2018, 05:26:00 PM »
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  • Cassini, your well docuмented research and analysis over the years has truly been tremendous.  Perhaps, you could reach out to Robert Sungenis -- if you have not already -- and work with him to bring the sacred truth of geocentrism to a wider audience.  (I personally was greatly distressed at how Dr. Sungenis allowed the original planned central theme of geocentrism for the movie The Principle to be subverted into one of a Hollywood/Catholicism hybrid on the Copernican Principle.  I prayed that the blessing of heaven rain down upon that movie, but when I came to find out how it had been corrupted in certain ways including a modified mini-skirt woman and singing by a different degenerate woman as well as an uncorrected slam dunk on the Church regarding Giordano Bruno, I realized the movie could not be blessed by the Queen of Purity, nor the King of the Universe and of Truth.)

    Dr.  Sungenis suffered a defacto anathematization by the SSPX after he did a much deserved shaming of the Society (in his great work Galileo Was Wrong: The Church Was Right) for its inane cover story article in The Angeluls by the junior high school teacher Winschel that you reference in footnote 5 above.

    I have been in touch with Robert Sungenis glasG4e. He is however, his own man and has his own way of addressing the problem of that disasterous U-turn by churchmen when allowing false science enter the womb of the Catholic Church.
    What I decided many years ago was to do my own independent study of the matter in order to be able to assist any others trying to bring the truth to the surface. The exercise has enhanced my love for God by way of His creation, thus confirming the truth of the first dogma that appears in Ott's Dogmas of the Catholic Faith: 'God can be known by the things that He made.' I now remind friends that when God created the earth, he provided so much that is now taken for granted. Go into any house, church, hospital, shopping centre, anywhere on earth and there is not one item that we can see that did not originate from God's Earth. Look around you now, chairs, tables, glass, stone, metal, food, drink, fruit, cloths, cars, fuel, things go on and on. Now look at the flora and fauna of the earth, such beauty and completeness. Ten minutes ago I watched the BBC show us the miracle of birds' eggs and how they perform to keep birds going on Earth. Needless to say 'evolution' got all the credit, and God is no longer in the picture. This betrayal of God's in His creation began with the Copernican revolution and Modernism in the Church began with the adoption of churchmen of the Galilean reformation.
    Hopefull, later in this year my 25-year study of both faith and science will be published, one more effort to correct one of the greatest mistakes ever made by churchmen of the Catholic Church.


    Offline aryzia

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    Re: Let us not forget Fr Robinson's (SSPX) pagan cosmology
    « Reply #20 on: March 31, 2018, 05:57:09 PM »
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  • I have been in touch with Robert Sungenis glasG4e. He is however, his own man and has his own way of addressing the problem of that disasterous U-turn by churchmen when allowing false science enter the womb of the Catholic Church.
    What I decided many years ago was to do my own independent study of the matter in order to be able to assist any others trying to bring the truth to the surface. The exercise has enhanced my love for God by way of His creation, thus confirming the truth of the first dogma that appears in Ott's Dogmas of the Catholic Faith: 'God can be known by the things that He made.' I now remind friends that when God created the earth, he provided so much that is now taken for granted. Go into any house, church, hospital, shopping centre, anywhere on earth and there is not one item that we can see that did not originate from God's Earth. Look around you now, chairs, tables, glass, stone, metal, food, drink, fruit, cloths, cars, fuel, things go on and on. Now look at the flora and fauna of the earth, such beauty and completeness. Ten minutes ago I watched the BBC show us the miracle of birds' eggs and how they perform to keep birds going on Earth. Needless to say 'evolution' got all the credit, and God is no longer in the picture. This betrayal of God's in His creation began with the Copernican revolution and Modernism in the Church began with the adoption of churchmen of the Galilean reformation.
    Hopefull, later in this year my 25-year study of both faith and science will be published, one more effort to correct one of the greatest mistakes ever made by churchmen of the Catholic Church.
    In other words, Sungenis  at the core, is a heliocentrist.

    Offline cassini

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    Re: Let us not forget Fr Robinson's (SSPX) pagan cosmology
    « Reply #21 on: March 31, 2018, 06:03:26 PM »
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  • Robert Sungenis uses strictly heliocentric science and scientists to make his point that earth is a stationary globe. He is useless in defending truth against evolution and relativism.

    I also noticed Sungenis used Newtonianism to show geocentrism was as viable as heliocentrism aryzia. This gave credence to Newton's theories and I think I told him you do not defend geocentrism by crediting Newton as showing anything truly scientific, quite the opposite, you give credence to his heliocentrism. I think he told me that he does not support Newtonianism, merely showed it can also be used to show geocentrism so has little merit to prove anything. 

    I totally dismiss and ignore Newton's theory as little more than just that, a worthless theory, no better that other theories about gravity. But Newton's theory depends on Kepler's ellipse. Domenico Cassini has long shown ellipses are not the path of orbits, they are Cassinian ovals. Later these ovals were shown to be directly related to phi mathematical curves found in many natural things like shells, leaves, blood cells and electromagnetic waves. When Newton's orbits did not show up where they were supposed to be in their ellipses, he invented perturbations, that is, other bodies that caused planets to veer away due to their attraction. Now with 5 planets all moving together at different rates and distances, perturbations got so complex they could not be calculated yet are still held to be a 'law' of universal gravity.

    Geocentrism and its laws, be they natural laws or the work of angels, is beyond science to know or find. God designed it that way, as the Book of Job says, out of man's understanding. Thus it is a matter of faith. Now you can chose the revealed geocentrism of Scripture, or faith in the lies of human science, that they proved heliocentrism. Geocentrism if provable could not be of faith. Yet listen to Rome since 1835 at least and you will hear them tell the flock geocentrism is not a matgter of faith but a matter of/for science

    Just noticed you second post aryzia,,. No Sungenis is not a heliocentrist, he is a defender of geocentrisn, one in a million who has done more work defending biblical geocentrism than any other I know in the present.

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Let us not forget Fr Robinson's (SSPX) pagan cosmology
    « Reply #22 on: March 31, 2018, 07:39:14 PM »
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  • Sungenis is not a heliocentrist, he is a defender of geocentrisn, one in a million who has done more work defending biblical geocentrism than any other I know in the present.
    AMEN!


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Let us not forget Fr Robinson's (SSPX) pagan cosmology
    « Reply #23 on: April 04, 2018, 08:47:21 PM »
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  • Fr R is an electrical engineer, not a scientist.  And it shows.

    Father has some engineering degrees, but why does the SSPX describes him as a "professor"?

    What are Father's scholastic credentials for a professorship?
    Is it his Master's degree + 6 years of seminary?   How does this qualify as a doctorate?

    Does anyone know the answer to how and where Fr. Robinson became a professor?

    It seems a bit comical, like calling Mr. Robt. Siscoe, the insurance adjustor, a professional Catholic writer or theological expert.

    The SSPX makes home-grown literary experts to do "hit-pieces" against their enemies.
    Some prior examples are Fr. Cekada and Fr. Laisney.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Let us not forget Fr Robinson's (SSPX) pagan cosmology
    « Reply #24 on: April 04, 2018, 10:22:49 PM »
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  • Quote
    Does anyone know the answer to how and where Fr. Robinson became a professor?
    Good question. He teaches at the seminary in Australia/New Zealand.  Maybe that’s why? ?  

    If so, does that mean I’m a mechanic if I change my car’s oil?  Seems like a pretty liberal use of the word “professor”.

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Let us not forget Fr Robinson's (SSPX) pagan cosmology
    « Reply #25 on: April 07, 2018, 02:42:57 PM »
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  • In a very recent book Pythagoras, Bruno, Galileo, written by A.A. Martinez, he recalls the history of pagan cosmology and the fight against all the heresies in it by the Fathers of the Church especially between 150 AD and 430AD. Forgotten today are the many heresies contained in their heliocentric cosmology. 'Saint Hippolytus of Rome criticised the "alliance between heresy and the Pythagorean philosophy" and he denounced the "enormous and endless heresies" of the "disciples not of Christ but of Pythagoras.

    Fr Robinson, in his new book The realistic guide to [Catholic] Religion and Science, once again tries to reintroduce this long condemned pagan cosmology as Catholic. To make it worse it comes from a priest who is a member of the SSPX, founded by Archbishop Lefebvre who must be turning in his grave to find his Society now embracing and promulgating the greatest of all heresies that eliminated the first dogma of the Catholic Church: 'God can be known from the things that he made.'
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Let us not forget Fr Robinson's (SSPX) pagan cosmology
    « Reply #26 on: April 07, 2018, 06:58:06 PM »
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  • That is absolutely not true!   I hope you are simply ignorant and or dis-informed on the matter rather than malicious as well.  Aside from that, perhaps you will tell us your credentials and what exactly you have done to spread and defend the Catholic Faith.  Without knowing more at this point, I would venture to say that Dr. Sungenis has done more good for the promotion and defense of the Catholic Faith than you have or ever will come close to doing.  I don't know if you are a flat earther or not, but I do know that some flat earthers seem absolutely hell bent on destroying Dr. Sungenis' good reputation.  May God have mercy on their souls -- if they repent.
    .
    You're asking aryzia who has posted often in wimpy attempts to support flat-earthism, while showing himself to be uninformed and pompous in his ignorance.
    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Let us not forget Fr Robinson's (SSPX) pagan cosmology
    « Reply #27 on: April 07, 2018, 07:25:09 PM »
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  • .
    You're asking aryzia who has posted often in wimpy attempts to support flat-earthism, while showing himself to be uninformed and pompous in his ignorance.
    .
    Thanks for the input Neil.  I didn't know about him.

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Let us not forget Fr Robinson's (SSPX) pagan cosmology
    « Reply #28 on: April 07, 2018, 08:02:24 PM »
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  • Page 42 et seq. of this linked docuмent has a strong critique of Fr. Robinson's book: http://www.ecclesiamilitans.com/The_Recusant_Issue46_MarchApril2018.pdf

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Let us not forget Fr Robinson's (SSPX) pagan cosmology
    « Reply #29 on: April 07, 2018, 08:06:57 PM »
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  • The Bible also implies the Earth is flat if you are to take every expression as literal(a globe has no corners after all). Why do you reckon it's not?

    I find your assertion that geocentrism and the true nature of the globe are beyond human understanding to be ridiculous taking in mind the first dogma. We know God by His creation, which is why the Church has always been a great patron of science. To deny that Scripture can be proven through the studying of God's creation is to deny the first dogma that you yourself quoted.