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Author Topic: Leo XIII prophecy debunked  (Read 3428 times)

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Offline Caio di Corea

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Leo XIII prophecy debunked
« on: January 15, 2010, 04:00:40 PM »
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    Offline CM

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    Leo XIII prophecy debunked
    « Reply #1 on: January 15, 2010, 10:17:08 PM »
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    • So the Dimonds teach that the Modernists changed it, but this is not what happened.  Am I getting this right?

    And how does this mean that the prayer does not reflect exactly what is taking place in Rome?
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    Offline Raoul76

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    Leo XIII prophecy debunked
    « Reply #2 on: January 15, 2010, 10:39:33 PM »
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    • That's why I mostly stay away from prophecies and just follow the evidence of my own eyeballs.  It's possible lots of these prophecies are meant to contribute to the confusion.

    I'm not speaking of the Leo XIII prophecy, just in general.
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    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline CM

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    Leo XIII prophecy debunked
    « Reply #3 on: January 15, 2010, 10:53:52 PM »
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    • Quote from: Jesus Christ, the God-man
    Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.


    Keep the Faith and let God sort everything else out (my approach).  If a prophecy comes to pass and we recognize it, so be it, but God's words (the Holy Catholic Faith) will not pass away, though we surely will without it.
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    Offline Raoul76

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    Leo XIII prophecy debunked
    « Reply #4 on: January 15, 2010, 10:56:09 PM »
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    • Yeah, I also have that a posteriori approach to prophecy.  
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    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline Caio di Corea

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    Leo XIII prophecy debunked
    « Reply #5 on: January 17, 2010, 12:10:25 PM »
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    • diverging from this thread: http://www.cathinfo.com/index.php?a=topic&t=10106

    Quote from: Ladislaus
    Pope Leo XIII wrote both those prayers after having heard the conversation between Christ and the devil.


    Is there any reliable source (some old book) for this?

    Quote from: Telesphorus

    Humanum Genus points out that the Freemasons had been condemned from the early 18th Century.  What has happened since Humanum Genus has been a progression of what had happened up to that time.


    Could you expound this more? (I don't know how this relates to Cekada's argument)
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    Offline tadeas

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    Leo XIII prophecy debunked
    « Reply #6 on: January 20, 2010, 01:51:56 PM »
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    • Quote from: caio
    Quote from: Ladislaus
    Pope Leo XIII wrote both those prayers after having heard the conversation between Christ and the devil.


    Is there any reliable source (some old book) for this?

    Gabriele Amorth in "Exorcist speaks" says it was testified by P. Pechenino in the journal Ephemerides Lithurgicae, 1955, p.58-59, and by Cardinal Rocca in his pastoral letter (Bologna, 1946).
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    Offline tadeas

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    Leo XIII prophecy debunked
    « Reply #7 on: January 20, 2010, 01:55:09 PM »
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    • Quote from: "Anthony Cekada"
    The Future? The Past! The passages in question, please note, were not written in the future tense, as one would expect for a prophecy. They were written in the past tense, and thus referred to events which had already taken place in 1888.


    I disagree. The past is frequently used to express the certainty of a future action. Examples:

    Jude 14: „the Lord did come in His saintly myriads“
    Isa. 5:13, „therefore my people are gone into captivity.“
    Zech 12:10: “And I have poured out on the house of David, and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, a spirit of grace and supplication, and they have looked upon him whom they have pierced, and they have mourned over him, as one mourns over an only child, and they weep bitterly for him, as one weeps over a first-born.”
    Eph 2:6; Isa 10:28-32 etc.

    Quote from: "Anthony Cekada"
    The passages were not removed after Leo XIII’s death. They were already suppressed in 1902 — a year and a half before the pontiff died. ...
    The Sacred Congregation of Rites, in consultation with the Congregation for Indulgences, revised the 1888 prayer and issued a new edition. This was printed in 1902, bearing the seal of the Congregation’s Prefect, Cardinal Ferrata, and the signature of the Congregation’s Secretary, Archbishop D. Panici, and his attestation that is “agrees with the original.” (See supplementary material bound into back of Pustet Rituale Romanum, 6th ed., [1898].)


    It is a lie.
    Rituale Romanum of Leo XIII (1903, after his death):


    Prayer to St. Michael:



    So the passage was removed sometimes later.
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    Offline Caio di Corea

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    Leo XIII prophecy debunked
    « Reply #8 on: January 20, 2010, 09:16:07 PM »
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    Offline Raoul76

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    Leo XIII prophecy debunked
    « Reply #9 on: January 20, 2010, 10:19:41 PM »
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    • Quote
    Ubi sedes beatissimi Petri et Cathedra veritatis ad lucem gentium constituta est, ibi thronum posuerunt abominationis et impietatis suae; ut percusso Pastore, et gregem disperdere valeant.


    Quote
    "In the Holy Place itself, where has been set up the See of the most holy Peter and the Chair of Truth for the light of the world, they have raised the throne of their abominable impiety with the iniquitous design that when the Pastor has been struck the sheep may be scattered."


    What is translated as "light of the world" really means "light of the people" -- lucem gentium.

    This prophecy predicts that the "throne of their abominable impiety" will replace the throne of Peter, from where the "light of the people" once shone.

    Now look at the mockery of the devil.  One of his men on the Throne of Peter, Paul VI, as if in oblique reference to this prophecy, names an infamous docuмent LUMEN GENTIUM.  So "lucem gentium" is replaced by "Lumen Gentium," the light of Christ is replaced by the light of Satan, and almost no one notices.

    It's not that the word "lumen" is more sinister or anything than "lucem," the sneering insult is that this heretical docuмent refers in its title back to the Michael the Archangel prayer at all.
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    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline pax

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    Leo XIII prophecy debunked
    « Reply #10 on: January 21, 2010, 08:07:38 AM »
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    • Quote from: Raoul76
    Quote
    Ubi sedes beatissimi Petri et Cathedra veritatis ad lucem gentium constituta est, ibi thronum posuerunt abominationis et impietatis suae; ut percusso Pastore, et gregem disperdere valeant.


    Quote
    "In the Holy Place itself, where has been set up the See of the most holy Peter and the Chair of Truth for the light of the world, they have raised the throne of their abominable impiety with the iniquitous design that when the Pastor has been struck the sheep may be scattered."


    What is translated as "light of the world" really means "light of the people" -- lucem gentium.

    This prophecy predicts that the "throne of their abominable impiety" will replace the throne of Peter, from where the "light of the people" once shone.

    Now look at the mockery of the devil.  One of his men on the Throne of Peter, Paul VI, as if in oblique reference to this prophecy, names an infamous docuмent LUMEN GENTIUM.  So "lucem gentium" is replaced by "Lumen Gentium," the light of Christ is replaced by the light of Satan, and almost no one notices.

    It's not that the word "lumen" is more sinister or anything than "lucem," the sneering insult is that this heretical docuмent refers in its title back to the Michael the Archangel prayer at all.


    I think that is a bit of a stretch, but he did drop those prayers, as well as the Oath Against Modernism. Not good.
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    Offline Belloc

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    Leo XIII prophecy debunked
    « Reply #11 on: January 21, 2010, 08:11:18 AM »
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    • There are several stories how the prayer was written and how it came about-point is, supernatural revelation was given to the successor of Peter and is rather timely, in lieu of rising Modernism and als, telling why certain people had it dropped after V2....

    as far as the source, too many sedes are trying to set back that vacant chair, so I find it questionable....mark my words, in the future, there will be a split in SV circles, with more people like CM/Raoul and setting the vacant chair farther and farther back in time......until, well, nothing is left.....
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    Offline pax

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    Leo XIII prophecy debunked
    « Reply #12 on: January 21, 2010, 08:17:24 AM »
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    • Quote from: Belloc
    There are several stories how the prayer was written and how it came about-point is, supernatural revelation was given to the successor of Peter and is rather timely, in lieu of rising Modernism and als, telling why certain people had it dropped after V2....

    as far as the source, too many sedes are trying to set back that vacant chair, so I find it questionable....mark my words, in the future, there will be a split in SV circles, with more people like CM/Raoul and setting the vacant chair farther and farther back in time......until, well, nothing is left.....


    I agree. Paul was the first Sede, and the Chair has been empty since Peter withdrew from eating with the Gentiles.
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