Author Topic: Leo XIII and Pius X (Read 3355 times)

roscoe · « **on:** June 23, 2009, 10:29:10 PM »

Is there anyone here who believes that either one or both of these Popes( popes?) is are anti-popes?

CM · « **Reply #1 on:** June 23, 2009, 10:37:34 PM »

Not I. What are you fishing for?

roscoe · « **Reply #2 on:** June 23, 2009, 10:46:37 PM »

I wanted you to state clearly where you were.

CM · « **Reply #3 on:** June 23, 2009, 10:51:43 PM »

Hahaha this was directed at me?! :sign-party-time: :sign-surrender: :dancing-banana: :wine-drinking: :whistleblower: :tv-disturbed: :ready-to-eat: :scratchchin: :really-mad2: :roll-laugh2: :roll-laugh1: :light-saber:

:detective: :good-shot: :confused1: :smash-pc: :jumping2: :reporter: :nunchaku: :rolleyes: :applause: :alcohol: :dancing: :cussing:

:shocked: :soapbox: :scared2: :reading:

:rahrah: :cheers:

:farmer:

:smile: :faint: :boxer: :argue: :sheep:

:plant:

:wink: :wave: :baby:

:cool: :idea: :pop: :cry: :sad:

roscoe · « **Reply #4 on:** June 23, 2009, 11:32:12 PM »

Why are you making such a big deal out of this? You have accused Leo XIII of making freemasons cardinals.

roscoe · « **Reply #5 on:** June 23, 2009, 11:36:17 PM »

No doubt the other one you were going to allege would be Card Newman.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #6 on:** June 24, 2009, 01:22:57 AM »

Quote from: roscoe

You have accused Leo XIII of making freemasons cardinals.

Was the accusation about an act that involved full knowledge and consent?

I am CERTAIN some clerics have unwittingly elevated enemies of the Church to high offices therein.

roscoe · « **Reply #7 on:** June 24, 2009, 01:32:28 AM »

Forget about knowledge and consent for the moment--- I am not aware of this being true.

Raoul76 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 24, 2009, 01:47:58 AM »

The Church has always been composed of those who were a bit more liberal and a bit more conservative. Pre-VII Popes are not "anti-Popes" because they didn't crack down on every cleric with a liberal bent, any more than medieval Popes are anti-Popes because they didn't excommunicate every cleric who lived in concubinage.

We tend to forget this because we live in an age of liberalism and that is our common enemy, but you can be corrupted by being too fanatically, violently conservative just as well as by being a socialist in a cassock. I think the Inquisition was necessary but no doubt it showed the abuses that can arise because of this fanaticism. Torturing people to get a confession and so on, as if they're going to tell the truth in that situation!

The extreme liberalism of the VII Popes shouldn't make us veer too hard in the other direction. Don't forget Christ's mercy and patience. There was nothing that Leo XIII or any of these Popes could have done against the rise of modernism and democratic governments and all the other evils of our time that were gradually squeezing out the truth.

roscoe · « **Reply #9 on:** June 24, 2009, 05:43:00 PM »

CM has made the accusation that Leo XIII made freemasons cardinals. Other than the absurd accusation against Card Rampolla, what other freemason(s) did he give the Purple to? I am not aware of any.

roscoe · « **Reply #10 on:** June 24, 2009, 05:44:37 PM »

Correction-- what other ALLEGED freemasons did he give the Purple to?

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #11 on:** June 24, 2009, 08:22:11 PM »

I just want to interject here that Saint Pius X had already said there were people that were in the Church that he couldn't root out because they hid well. I'm sure that there were a good many fine Catholics that fell for their "bad disguise" as Saint Pius X put it, including the holy Pope Leo XIII.

CM · « **Reply #12 on:** June 24, 2009, 10:20:00 PM »

No doubt. But Pius X was 'canonized' by an antipope, and allowed a Catechism to be published with multiple heresies in it. Not a saint.

CM · « **Reply #13 on:** June 24, 2009, 10:20:47 PM »

A pope who lacked diligence. But not a saint.

Elizabeth · « **Reply #14 on:** June 24, 2009, 10:36:43 PM »

Quote from: Catholic Martyr

No doubt. But Pius X was 'canonized' by an antipope, and allowed a Catechism to be published with multiple heresies in it. Not a saint.