Author Topic: ++Lefebvre and sedevacantism (Read 36953 times)

hollingsworth · « **Reply #315 on:** October 11, 2019, 03:08:37 PM »

Stubborn: it means that we should have to continue to obey him as the pope in all those religious matters which fall within the ambit of his authority, unless he should command something which is sinful.

Thanks, Stub. Your answer was as I expected, i.e. really a non-answer. But I don’t want to seem to hard on you and other millions of Catholics who seek desperately to make a square peg fit into a round hole. I had to scroll down for your answer, and over a mountain of keyboard diarrhea deposited by SJ. But I finally got there.
BTW, Stub, should we obey the UN as Francis commands?

Stubborn · « **Reply #316 on:** October 12, 2019, 05:15:39 AM »

Quote from: hollingsworth on October 11, 2019, 03:08:37 PM

Stubborn: it means that we should have to continue to obey him as the pope in all those religious matters which fall within the ambit of his authority, unless he should command something which is sinful.

Thanks, Stub. Your answer was as I expected, i.e. really a non-answer. But I don’t want to seem to hard on you and other millions of Catholics who seek desperately to make a square peg fit into a round hole. I had to scroll down for your answer, and over a mountain of keyboard diarrhea deposited by SJ. But I finally got there.
BTW, Stub, should we obey the UN as Francis commands?

In one sense you're correct that it is a non-answer, but only in the sense that neither he nor any of the conciliar popes have commanded us to do anything, as such there is nothing to obey him in.

Re the UN, I have no idea what it is that he commands us to obey. Can you post his quote on this?

hollingsworth · « **Reply #317 on:** October 12, 2019, 10:38:58 AM »

Quote

Stubborn:In one sense you're correct that it is a non-answer, but only in the sense that neither he nor any of the conciliar popes have commanded us to do anything, as such there is nothing to obey him in.

Bergoglio wants us, i.e. "man" to obey the UN, according to reports

https://catholicismpure.wordpress.com/2019/09/18/really-pope-francis-must-we-obey-the-united-nations-and-the-evil-it-commands/

Meg · « **Reply #318 on:** October 12, 2019, 12:20:34 PM »

Quote from: hollingsworth on October 12, 2019, 10:38:58 AM

Bergoglio wants us, i.e. "man" to obey the UN, according to reports

https://catholicismpure.wordpress.com/2019/09/18/really-pope-francis-must-we-obey-the-united-nations-and-the-evil-it-commands/

Of course Francis wants us to obey the U.N. He's a Modernist. That's how they think.

ByzCat3000 · « **Reply #319 on:** October 12, 2019, 08:28:50 PM »

Quote from: Meg on October 12, 2019, 12:20:34 PM

Of course Francis wants us to obey the U.N. He's a Modernist. That's how they think.

Stubborn made the ridiculous argument that the Conciliar Popes haven't commanded us to do anything.

I mean that's clearly ridiculous. They've certainly given us commands that we can't obey. They've also given us commands that some of us, at least, can obey in good conscience, while others perhaps can't.

Whether we're obliged to obey their *lawful* commands is gonna be a difference between R + R and Sede.

And I'm not convinced of the Sede view of the papacy itself, really that's my biggest issue with it. I'm highly skeptical of ultramontanism. While they were incorrect, I guess I'm not convinced the Conciliarists were *all* wrong (I agree with them being wrong where dogma condemns them.) And I think from a realist standpoint its a bit silly to be all like "we have to obey the Pope no matter what. Wait, we can't? I guess he's not a true pope then."

But Stubborn did actually make this claim, and it doesn't make any sense.

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Author Topic: ++Lefebvre and sedevacantism (Read 36953 times)

hollingsworth

Re: ++Lefebvre and sedevacantism

Stubborn

Re: ++Lefebvre and sedevacantism

hollingsworth

Re: ++Lefebvre and sedevacantism

Meg

Re: ++Lefebvre and sedevacantism

ByzCat3000

Re: ++Lefebvre and sedevacantism