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Author Topic: ++Lefebvre and sedevacantism  (Read 36865 times)

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Offline Stubborn

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Re: ++Lefebvre and sedevacantism
« Reply #330 on: October 13, 2019, 12:32:37 PM »
Bergoglio wants us, i.e. "man" to obey the UN, according to reports

 
https://catholicismpure.wordpress.com/2019/09/18/really-pope-francis-must-we-obey-the-united-nations-and-the-evil-it-commands/
Well, the UN is a corrupt, jew-masonic institution. We have to deny his request.

Offline Stubborn

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Re: ++Lefebvre and sedevacantism
« Reply #331 on: October 13, 2019, 12:33:32 PM »
They command us to accept Vatican II, and the Novus Ordo as licit.  Francis commands us not to proselytize.

Just a few examples.
Please post these, per above, they are only a few, shouldn't take you much time.


Offline Stubborn

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Re: ++Lefebvre and sedevacantism
« Reply #332 on: October 13, 2019, 12:42:40 PM »
You haven't been around long enough to know some of his strange perspectives.  Stubborn believes that unless the Pope says, "I command you to do [such-and-such] under the pain of sin," then there's no command.
I know with certainty that the pope most assuredly and absolutely, certainly *can* command us to do that which is sinful - reality proves this. When that happens, the highest and most fundamental of all Catholic Principles decides our course of action for us. That principle you wholly and continually reject, is: "First we are under obedience to God, only then under obedience to man." What I'd like to know is, why?


Quote
He also asserts that the Magisterium is absolutely infallible ... but says that Vatican II is not part of the Magisterium.
There was a poster who was banned, Bellator Dei, who posted maybe a dozen or so quotes directly from popes in their encyclicals that taught this exact thing. The Church's magisterium is 100% infallible, 100% of the time.

Just because you maintain and promote the NO definition of what the magisterium is, only demonstrates their efficiency in confusing the term.

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: ++Lefebvre and sedevacantism
« Reply #333 on: October 13, 2019, 12:59:44 PM »
I’m not going to rehash an old debate but I will say, Ladislaus, that I disagree with your magisterium understanding.  You correctly allow multiple distinctions for the complexities of sedeprivationism.  Yet your view of the magisterium is overly general and too broad.  I think that the magisterium is equally complex.  Thus, it is incorrect to say that V2 is part of the magisterium.  It isn’t but it also is. There are different levels of magisterial authority, just as some things are doctrinal and some things are only “theologically certain”.

Re: ++Lefebvre and sedevacantism
« Reply #334 on: October 14, 2019, 09:04:05 PM »
Please post these, per above, they are only a few, shouldn't take you much time.
Lumen Gentium:

Each and all these items which are set forth in this dogmatic Constitution have met with the approval of the Council Fathers. And We by the apostolic power given Us by Christ together with the Venerable Fathers in the Holy Spirit, approve, decree and establish it and command that what has thus been decided in the Council be promulgated for the glory of God.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/docuмents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html