Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: ++Lefebvre and sedevacantism  (Read 36834 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: ++Lefebvre and sedevacantism
« Reply #270 on: October 10, 2019, 07:36:08 PM »
Makes me feel better that modern science is able to solve the novus ordo problem, by mathematically calculating the liturgical sanctity of the new rite.  What else should they put their efforts towards?  Can they calculate how many QUADrillion (that's 1,000 trillion) of novus ordo-ites have gone to invalid masses when "for all" was used in the consecration formula?  +Benedict changed the formula back to "for many", so the invalid "for all" was used for 40+ years, times 52 sundays, times 1 billion catholics = approx. 2 QUADrillion.  Even if you assume half of that, it's 1 quadrillion.  That's a lot of invalid masses, which have NO graces.  0%.  zilch.
.
It's insanity that people keep defending the novus ordo.
Wait, are we somehow certain "for you and for all" invalidates the rite?  Somehow I just came across this.  Do we know this, somehow, or are you just saying its impossible?

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: ++Lefebvre and sedevacantism
« Reply #271 on: October 10, 2019, 07:40:44 PM »
Then, seeing Lad getting raked over the coals and thoroughly thrashed on the subject of dogmatic facts, tries to bail out his new ally by providing him an exit strategy: “Oh, the thread has been derailed; please desist!”

No, what I mean is that I will no longer engage you on the subject, or any other subject for that matter.  I am only in the business of informing my own conscience.  If I were to conclude that these men are to be considered legitimate popes with the certainty of faith, then I would not only accept them but would beat the SSPX back into full communion with them.  To this point, however, I simply do not recognize these men as having the same faith and the same religion that I do.  And that in fact is of the essence when it comes to Universal Acceptance.  It essentially boils down to that, does the Church recognize these men as one of their own, a fellow believer.  Clearly Traditional Catholics do not, and regard them as alien and foreigners.  Whether one wants to quibble about the precise mechanisms to being able to consider such a one removed from office ... well, those are just technicalities.  What's important is that we do not recognize these men as our rules of faith, and conversely do not give them our acceptance.


Re: ++Lefebvre and sedevacantism
« Reply #272 on: October 10, 2019, 07:43:56 PM »
No, what I mean is that I will no longer engage you on the subject, or any other subject for that matter.
Dodger.
Ladislaus gets argued into a corner, then goes storming away (again).

Re: ++Lefebvre and sedevacantism
« Reply #273 on: October 10, 2019, 07:47:15 PM »
No, what I mean is that I will no longer engage you on the subject, or any other subject for that matter.  I am only in the business of informing my own conscience.  If I were to conclude that these men are to be considered legitimate popes with the certainty of faith, then I would not only accept them but would beat the SSPX back into full communion with them.  To this point, however, I simply do not recognize these men as having the same faith and the same religion that I do.  And that in fact is of the essence when it comes to Universal Acceptance.  It essentially boils down to that, does the Church recognize these men as one of their own, a fellow believer.  Clearly Traditional Catholics do not, and regard them as alien and foreigners.  Whether one wants to quibble about the precise mechanisms to being able to consider such a one removed from office ... well, those are just technicalities.  What's important is that we do not recognize these men as our rules of faith, and conversely do not give them our acceptance.
Leaving aside the fact that Sean is being obnoxious, though, I don't see why "they're legitimate popes, but we've exaggerated the universal ordinary magisterium" is *off the table* as a solution.

Keep in mind that Papal Infallibility itself was debatable up till 1870.  Vatican I dogmatically affirmed it under limited circuмstances.  Maybe trying to go beyond that, or trying to say the ordinary teaching authority" of the Church in one particular era is certainly infallible, is a problem.

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: ++Lefebvre and sedevacantism
« Reply #274 on: October 10, 2019, 07:48:50 PM »
Dodger.
Ladislaus gets argued into a corner, then goes storming away (again).

This has to be one of the most laughable things you have ever posted, and you have set the bar very high.  You've done that dozens of times.  When argued into a corner, you bail out of a thread; in fact, you've bailed off CathInfo several times.  You claimed just the other day that you were going to stop posting entirely.  But we now see you're back.  Not only that, but your modus operandi also includes starting a thread to have all those who do not see the crisis your way banned.  I am not bailing on anything ... except for wasting my time exchanging posts with you.  This is my last post in response to anything you have to say.