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Author Topic: ++Lefebvre and sedevacantism  (Read 36859 times)

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Online Pax Vobis

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Re: ++Lefebvre and sedevacantism
« Reply #220 on: October 10, 2019, 11:38:24 AM »
Trad bishops have full spiritual jurisdiction, as did St Athanasius.  The novus ordo bishops would have material jurisdiction, which is the visible continuance of the Church.  This suffices.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: ++Lefebvre and sedevacantism
« Reply #221 on: October 10, 2019, 11:38:53 AM »
Quote from: SeanJohnson on October 10, 2019, 11:33:49 AM
Whoop-dee-do:

I’m not defending those things as dogmatic facts.

You are a dishonested, retarded baboon.  First of all, these are not facts, but teachings and disciplines.  If you actually understood the notion of universal acceptance, you'd understand that theologians derived it from the infallibility of the Ecclesia Credens, based on the logical Major that the Church cannot universally embrace an erroneous rule of faith.  And yet, according to you, the Church CAN universally embrace grave doctrinal error and a harmful Mass.  Johnson, you are nothing short of a heretic who denies the indefectibility of the Church.  You are a manifest heretic, and are not a Catholic.
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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: ++Lefebvre and sedevacantism
« Reply #222 on: October 10, 2019, 11:39:26 AM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on October 10, 2019, 11:35:35 AM
Does everyone need to cite these quotes for you again?  You are a dishonest liar if you claim that they have not questioned their legitimacy.

You are begging the question in assuming that the legitimacy of Bergoglio is dogmatic fact, and then lying about whether or not +Lefebvre and +Williamson ever questioned their legitimacy.  So you are using a combination of two lies to come up with your deranged conclusion.

You can cite the quotes all you want, but you only demonstrate that you do not understand them:

They are speaking of a future contingent action; of what may or may not transpire in the future.

If, at some point in the future the pope should lose his universal acceptance among a large portion of the bishops, then his papacy would no longer be a dogmatic fact (and therefore, the papacy would become questionable).
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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: ++Lefebvre and sedevacantism
« Reply #223 on: October 10, 2019, 11:40:09 AM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on October 10, 2019, 11:38:24 AM
Trad bishops have full spiritual jurisdiction, as did St Athanasius.  The novus ordo bishops would have material jurisdiction, which is the visible continuance of the Church.  This suffices.
Supplied, not ordinary (ie., case by case, not habitual).
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: ++Lefebvre and sedevacantism
« Reply #224 on: October 10, 2019, 11:42:39 AM »
Quote from: SeanJohnson on October 10, 2019, 11:39:26 AM
You can cite the quotes all you want, but you only demonstrate that you do not understand them:

They are speaking of a future contingent action; of what may or may not transpire in the future.

If, at some point in the future the pope should lose his universal acceptance among a large portion of the bishops, then his papacy would no longer be a dogmatic fact (and therefore, the papacy would become questionable).

Another lie.  +Lefebvre was clearly saying that HE might have to conclude that Wojtyla is not the pope ... even before any such declaration by the Church.  +Williamson's quote was referring to all the V2 papal claimants, including all the past ones.
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