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Author Topic: Latin NO mass ,,No way jose  (Read 2046 times)

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Offline Binechi

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Latin NO mass ,,No way jose
« on: May 25, 2017, 04:00:15 PM »
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    • A Reader Asks: "Is It Permitted to Attend a 'Latin Mass'
     At a Newchurch Site that Also Simulates the Novus Ordo Service?"
    From: The TRADITIO Fathers
    No True Catholic Can Attend Even a "Latin Mass" in Newchurch
     Since 1968, when Newchurch Adopted the New Ordinal
     Based on Protestant Models
     The Catholic Sacrament of Holy Orders Was Abolished
     And Newchurch Ceased to Ordain Priests
     And Began Only to "Install" Presbyter-ministers
     Who Are Not Priests, so No Priest, No Mass
     No True Catholic Is Permitted to Attend Such a Phony "Service"
    Dear TRADITIO Fathers:
    There is a so-called "Latin Mass" at a Newchurch parish nearby, but the same church uses the invalid Novus Ordo rite. I have heard that because this parishes simulates the Novus Ordo Mess as well, all services there are invalid and should be shunned by true Catholics. Is this correct?
    The TRADITIO Fathers Reply.
    The problem is far worse than you describe. Since 1968, when Newchurch adopted the New Ordinal based on Protestant models, the Catholic Sacrament of Holy Orders was abolished, and Newchurch ceased to ordain priests and began only to "install" presbyter-ministers, who are not priests. So: no priest, no Mass. No true Catholic is permitted to attend such a phony Protestant "service."
    Even if these presbyter-ministers simulate the Half Novus Ordo Vatican II "Latin" Mess of 1962+, such services are not Masses and are invalid because not offered by an ordained Catholic priest. They are just like Protestant services -- invalid, null and void. No true Catholic is permitted to attend such a phony Protestant "service."
    Occasionally, someone comes across an elderly priest who was ordained in Newchurch before 1968. That doesn't wash either. The man may be nominally a priest, but he is publicly and officially associating with heretics. Therefore, no true Catholic can attend such a Mass, any more than he can attend the service of an Eastern Orthodox priest. No true Catholic is permitted to attend such a phony Protestant "service."
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    Offline White Wolf

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    Traditio pulls no punches...
    « Reply #1 on: May 25, 2017, 04:37:12 PM »
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    • But often they are more Catholic than the Pope...  (Not that Martin Luther isn't either...).

    While I would not say that the Novus Ordo is certainly invalid, like Traditio does, I would consider three main problems...  (This is the Novus Ordo in Latin, with all attendent bells, smells, etc, and Gregorian Chant in the background... ie Maximum lipstick on this pig...)

    1)  The Novus Ordo has no offertory.  No offertory, no sacrifice.  Even satanists know that.

    2)  In the consecration of the Precious Blood, the formula defined by the Holy Council of Trent is nowhere in evidence.  "This is my Blood of the New Covenant" is not sufficient.  The words "Mystery of Faith", and "For Many" must also be present.

    3) Now we have the whole question of the priests ordination, and boy, that is one huge can of worms opened by Pius XII with "Sacramentum Ordinis" back in 1947.  And, even though the Novus Ordo has the dubious formula of Pius XII (which contradicts the Council of Florence) for priests, it lacks even that for the consecration of a bishop, so "Traditionalists" like Fr Pierre Marie are left with the arguement that the pope is the pope is the pope...

    The mind of the Church is that Catholics are not allowed to receive or partake in dubious rites where a positive doubt exists...  According to Leo 13th the minister must be duly fit to administer the sacrament and intend to do what the Church does  (He can be a heretic and ascribe to all sorts of wacko theories but as long as he does what the Church intends the sacrament is confected ex opera operatis...)

    Receiving Communion in the Novus might indeed be valid, but Communion is not the Mass, and the Communion Service is not part of the Mass.  Many Catholics are under the false impression that a Mass is valid if the Consecration is valid.  This is not the case, a valid Mass must have Offertory, Consecration, and Priest's Communion, which correspond to the offering, immolation, and consuming of the victim.

    ANd that is my $ .02
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Latin NO mass ,,No way jose
    « Reply #2 on: May 25, 2017, 07:35:51 PM »
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    • Big deal.

    I tell everyone to avoid Tridentine Masses offered in "shared facilities" all the time -- both online and offline.

    And I have a good reason, too!

    Is the Novus Ordo valid? Then you'll be stepping on Sacred Particles before/during/after your precious "Latin Mass" courtesy of Communion In The Hand which is universally practiced at Novus Ordo Masses. CitH results in Sacred Particles ending up on the floor. It's a fact.

    Is the Novus Ordo invalid? Well then you have to worry about the priest distributing "communion" from a previous Novus Ordo Mass. And are you genuflecting to the tabernacle before the Latin Mass is offered? If so, you might be adoring mere bread.

    And either way, you're hearing Mass in a desecrated church. Better to hear Mass in a neutral or "mission" location (Mass rocks, catacombs, garage, warehouse, etc.) which wasn't consecrated to Sacred use and then desecrated with the Novus Ordo Mass.

    Not to mention having to swim in the Conciliar milieu every time you go to Mass! Novus Ordo architecture, decor, art, posters, signage, literature/leaflets, and other conciliar propaganda will surround you, your spouse, and your child(ren) every time you go to Mass. Let's face it -- what better way to get your children "back" to the Conciliar Church? The first big step is to get them in the door, right? Show them it's not so bad, not so scary, not so evil...
    Have them get to know many of the Novus Ordo parishioners, priests, etc. who they will doubtlessly meet and befriend during their days attending Mass at a shared facility.

    Long story short, YOU might manage to stay Trad, but your children WILL NOT. I would almost bet money on it.
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    Offline poche

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    Re: Latin NO mass ,,No way jose
    « Reply #3 on: May 26, 2017, 05:09:28 AM »
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    • Both Bishop Williason and Fr. Pfeiffer said that it is ok to go to the Novus Ordo.  
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    Offline insidebaseball

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    Re: Latin NO mass ,,No way jose
    « Reply #4 on: May 26, 2017, 08:18:37 AM »
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    • Well then that's bad advice. Better off going to an Orthodox mass.
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Latin NO mass ,,No way jose
    « Reply #5 on: May 26, 2017, 04:11:07 PM »
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    • Quote from: poche on May 26, 2017, 05:09:28 AM
    Both Bishop Williason and Fr. Pfeiffer said that it is ok to go to the Novus Ordo.  
    They should both go there then.

    Reminds me of the book Parachuteless Skydiving by Hugo First
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    Offline Jovita

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    Re: Latin NO mass ,,No way jose
    « Reply #6 on: May 28, 2017, 05:20:28 PM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on May 26, 2017, 04:11:07 PM
    They should both go there then.

    Reminds me of the book Parachuteless Skydiving by Hugo First
    Yeah, not a good idea. 
    http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-skydiver-killed-wingsuit-20170525-story.html

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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Latin NO mass ,,No way jose
    « Reply #7 on: May 28, 2017, 09:32:36 PM »
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    • Quote from: poche on May 26, 2017, 05:09:28 AM
    Both Bishop Williason and Fr. Pfeiffer said that it is ok to go to the Novus Ordo.  
    You've learned that off by heart now. Congratulations!
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    Offline White Wolf

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    Fr Pfeiffer said it was OK to go to N O???
    « Reply #8 on: May 29, 2017, 06:15:17 PM »
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    • That was one of his main beefs against Bishop Williamson when I was in Boston.  :confused:

    Are you telling me he has drunk the Koolaid?  :o
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    Offline poche

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    Re: Latin NO mass ,,No way jose
    « Reply #9 on: May 29, 2017, 11:24:15 PM »
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    • Quote from: Nadir on May 28, 2017, 09:32:36 PM
    You've learned that off by heart now. Congratulations!
    Both of them did say that at one time or another. I believe this is primarily in reference to those who are unable to go to the TLM. Both of them apparently disagree with the idea of someone staying home alone.  
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    Offline White Wolf

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    I cannot imagine going to N O...
    « Reply #10 on: May 30, 2017, 11:24:26 AM »
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    • When I checked out of there in the late '80's, they were consecrating in tupperware and plastic jugs while electric guitars jammed in the background.  The closest I saw to anything traditional was a rendition of "Old Rugged Cross" on Good Friday.  I know that the reform of Benedict tried to put lipstick on the pig.  The last time I was at a N O in Huntington WV they were actually playing the organ and the alter girl was vested traditionally, and responding "and with your spirit, bringing tears to the eyes of my aunt.  (Just in case your wondering, I said the rosary the whole time and did not open my mouth once, especially not to receive "communion"; I was just what Fr P would call a "protestant observer".)  But the N O is still a pig no matter how much lipstick you put on it.  If you must feel like you've been to church, ask the local protestant minister at the most traditional-looking church you can find if you can just sit in the pews after the service and look at the stained glass of Our Lord knocking on the door...
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    Offline Spera in Deo

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    Re: Latin NO mass ,,No way jose
    « Reply #11 on: May 30, 2017, 06:36:40 PM »
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    • My personal criteria is that when I walk into a "Catholic" church, if there's a table in front of the altar, I turn right around and leave.
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    Offline ClarkSmith

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    Re: Latin NO mass ,,No way jose
    « Reply #12 on: May 31, 2017, 05:23:47 PM »
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    • I can't tell what is going on here. 
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    Offline Jovita

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    Re: Latin NO mass ,,No way jose
    « Reply #13 on: June 01, 2017, 09:00:15 AM »
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    • Quote from: ClarkSmith on May 31, 2017, 05:23:47 PM

    I can't tell what is going on here.
    Lord, have mercy on us.
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