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Author Topic: Knights Templar  (Read 2684 times)

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Offline JoanScholastica

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Knights Templar
« on: October 13, 2007, 01:16:23 AM »
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  • Have you heard of this? :confused1:


    KNIGHTS TEMPLAR WIN HERESY REPRIEVE AFTER 700 YEARS

    By Philip Pullella Thu Oct 11, 8:21 PM ET

    VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The Knights Templar, the medieval Christian military order accused of heresy and sɛҳuąƖ misconduct, will soon be partly rehabilitated when the Vatican publishes trial docuмents it had closely guarded for 700 years.

    A reproduction of the minutes of trials against the Templars, "'Processus Contra Templarios -- Papal Inquiry into the Trial of the Templars"' is a massive work and much more than a book -- with a 5,900 euros ($8,333) price tag.

    "This is a milestone because it is the first time that these docuмents are being released by the Vatican, which gives a stamp of authority to the entire project," said Professor Barbara Frale, a medievalist at the Vatican's Secret Archives.

    "Nothing before this offered scholars original docuмents of the trials of the Templars," she told Reuters in a telephone interview ahead of the official presentation of the work on October 25.

    The epic comes in a soft leather case that includes a large-format book including scholarly commentary, reproductions of original parchments in Latin, and -- to tantalize Templar buffs -- replicas of the wax seals used by 14th-century inquisitors.
    Reuters was given an advance preview of the work, of which only 799 numbered copies have been made.

    One parchment measuring about half a meter wide by some two meters long is so detailed that it includes reproductions of stains and imperfections seen on the originals.

    Pope Benedict will be given the first set of the work, published by the Vatican Secret Archives in collaboration with Italy's Scrinium cultural foundation, which acted as curator and will have exclusive world distribution rights.

    The Templars, whose full name was "Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon," were founded in 1119 by knights sworn to protecting Christian pilgrims visiting the Holy Land after the Crusaders captured Jerusalem in 1099.

    They amassed enormous wealth and helped finance wars of some European monarchs. Legends of their hidden treasures, secret rituals and power have figured over the years in films and bestsellers such as "The Da Vinci Code."

    The Knights have also been portrayed as guardians of the legendary Holy Grail, the cup used by Christ at the Last Supper before his crucifixion.

    The Vatican expects most copies of the work to be bought up by specialized libraries at top universities and by leading medieval scholars.

    BURNED AT THE STAKE

    The Templars went into decline after Muslims re-conquered the Holy Land at the end of the 13th century and were accused of heresy by King Philip IV of France, their foremost persecutor. Their alleged offences included denying Christ and secretly worshipping idols.

    The most titillating part of the docuмents is the so-called Chinon Parchment, which contains phrases in which Pope Clement V absolves the Templars of charges of heresy, which had been the backbone of King Philip's attempts to eliminate them.

    Templars were burned at the stake for heresy by King Philip's agents after they made confessions that most historians believe were given under duress.

    The parchment, also known as the Chinon Chart, was "misplaced" in the Vatican archives until 2001, when Frale stumbled across it.

    "The parchment was catalogued incorrectly at some point in history. At first I couldn't believe my eyes. I was incredulous," she said.

    "This was the docuмent that a lot of historians were looking for," the 37-year-old scholar said.

    Philip was heavily indebted to the Templars, who had helped him finance his wars, and getting rid of them was a convenient way of cancelling his debts, some historians say.

    Frale said Pope Clement was convinced that while the Templars had committed some grave sins, they were not heretics.
     
    SPITTING ON THE CROSS
     
    Their initiation ceremony is believed to have included spitting on the cross, but Frale said they justified this as a ritual of obedience in preparation for possible capture by Muslims. They were also said to have practiced sodomy.

    "Simply put, the pope recognized that they were not heretics but guilty of many other minor crimes -- such as abuses, violence and sinful acts within the order," she said. "But that is not the same as heresy."

    Despite his conviction that the Templars were not guilty of heresy, in 1312 Pope Clement ordered the Templars disbanded for what Frale called "the good of the Church" following his repeated clashes with the French king.

    Frale depicted the trials against the Templars between 1307 and 1312 as a battle of political wills between Clement and Philip, and said the docuмent means Clement's position has to be reappraised by historians.

    "This will allow anyone to see what is actually in docuмents like these and deflate legends that are in vogue these days," she said.

    Rosi Fontana, who has helped the Vatican coordinate the project, said: "The most incredible thing is that 700 years have passed and people are still fascinated by all of this."

    "The precise reproduction of the parchments will allow scholars to study them, touch them, admire them as if they were dealing with the real thing," Fontana said.

    "But even better, it means the originals will not deteriorate as fast as they would if they were constantly being viewed," she said.

    Courtesy of: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071012/ap_on_re_eu/vatican_knights_templar;_ylt=Ai6c1ud9FQwj826W3MikSYFn.3QA


    Offline Trinity

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    Knights Templar
    « Reply #1 on: October 13, 2007, 08:17:45 AM »
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  • Absolution from an heretical pope?     :incense:  What is that worth?
    +RIP
    Please pray for the repose of her soul.


    Offline Dawn

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    Knights Templar
    « Reply #2 on: October 13, 2007, 08:32:56 AM »
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  • Sorry, I did not see this and posted another. Joan, haven't you always heard they were occultists and sodomites? Who was the Pope that excommunicated them? I also heard people hated them because when they began there never was a more fierce band of men to fight the infidel. Just the sight of a Knight Templar would send Muslims running for cover. So, did they start good and end bad?
    As usual, NewRome speaks and I am baffled and confused. Sure signs of Satan.

    Offline dust-7

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    Knights Templar
    « Reply #3 on: October 13, 2007, 06:39:59 PM »
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  • Quote from: Dawn

    As usual, NewRome speaks and I am baffled and confused. Sure signs of Satan.


    When Roman Protestants publish what they terms are - 'source docuмents' - even that can't be trusted. And as for anything they say, it would be as if the late Jerry Falwell or the Southern Baptists decided something with regard to the Templars. Interesting, perhaps, but having nothing to do with The Church, as the OP falsely stated.

    The templars apparently brought in 'free' templars as the masons did with 'free' masons, which transformed the group. The templars had been defenders of The Faith, Crusaders, came by much wealth, and became lenders, as well. But when the 'free' sort came in, what had been virtuous in the old guard disappeared.

    We can see that creeping change for the worse in so many institutions, secular or religious. One can point to The Church institutions, themselves, if not The Church, itself, and how it was seized by the Roman Protestant sect, or now what appears to be the effort to do the same with the SSPX, founded by Lefebvre (pron. Le fev).

    Offline JoanScholastica

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    « Reply #4 on: October 14, 2007, 12:09:17 AM »
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  • Quote from: Dawn
    Sorry, I did not see this and posted another. Joan, haven't you always heard they were occultists and sodomites? Who was the Pope that excommunicated them? I also heard people hated them because when they began there never was a more fierce band of men to fight the infidel. Just the sight of a Knight Templar would send Muslims running for cover. So, did they start good and end bad?
    As usual, NewRome speaks and I am baffled and confused. Sure signs of Satan.


    no problem. Chant Cd, you can absorb this so that this topic is not cluttered. you can also do the necessary editions to make it coherent.... :smirk:

    as for your question, yes i know they are occultists and sodomites but i don't know which Pope excommunicated them... does anyone know? :confused1:


    Offline dust-7

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    Knights Templar
    « Reply #5 on: October 14, 2007, 02:49:34 AM »
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  • Quote from: JoanScholastica

    no problem. Chant Cd


    I think that was, Dawn.


    Quote from: JoanScholastica

    which Pope excommunicated them... does anyone know? :confused1:


    Clement V at the council he called in Vienne, with Philip's troops pretty much on guard outside the doors - or else. That's why most suspect that the Templars were railroaded, with coerced confessions. Alzog reported that similar questions of Templars in other countries produced no such confession of 'boiling babies' or 'spitting on the crucifix', etc. But clearly the Templars were a different organization than that granted authority in the heat of the Crusades. Apparently, they opposed King Philip (IV, the 'Fair') of France in any number of endeavors, against his military rivals. He also needed their money, much like the gentry chomping at that same bit when Martin Luther came bopping along, later in Germany.

    So, the wretched king took his opportunity, basically surrounded the council, and they voted excommunication in a private sort of secret session. But importantly, the condemnation was not said to be for heresy, as Alzog explains it, but for the 'interests of The Church', which could be read military threat/coercion by King Philip, and little more than that.

    Clement V essentially seemed the 'lapdog' of King Philip. One might wonder how a Pope could be so swayed by the King of France. Well, this was also the beginning of the voluntary exile of the Popes to Avignon - France (though technically, then, it wasn't said to be part of France). Clement V is recognized as a legitimate Pope. But he wasn't in Rome. He established his seat in Avignon. It famously took St. Catherine of Sienna to intervene and help move the papacy back to Rome some 60-70 years later under Pope Gregory 11th. One could argue, perhaps, that Clement V had no choice given the occupations back in Rome, etc. But it's another topic.

    Offline JoanScholastica

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    « Reply #6 on: October 14, 2007, 04:46:24 PM »
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  • Offline JoanScholastica

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    « Reply #7 on: October 14, 2007, 04:53:16 PM »
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  • Offline dust-7

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    « Reply #8 on: October 14, 2007, 06:15:25 PM »
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  • Offline JoanScholastica

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    « Reply #9 on: October 15, 2007, 09:03:40 PM »
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  • Offline dust-7

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    « Reply #10 on: October 15, 2007, 09:48:39 PM »
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  • Offline roscoe

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    « Reply #11 on: January 09, 2008, 09:57:16 PM »
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  • I do not believe that Templars were railroaded nor did Philip want or receive the spoils from their suppression--spoils were given to Hospitallers. And BonifaceVIII -who in my judgement should be recognised as an anti-pope--was protecting corrupt Templars.

    And BTW, Philip and his sons were whacked bringing an end to the virtuous Capetian bloodline. I believe Clement died a natural death.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline roscoe

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    « Reply #12 on: January 09, 2008, 10:59:22 PM »
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  • It is most unfortunate to have to report the following. I am in possession of a copy of HISTORY OF BONIFACE VIII by Padre Tosti. This was found in the bibliography of CONFLICT BET PHILIP IV AND BONIFACE  by Sr. Mary Mildred. Since my lack of comp skills or equip forbid me from scanning this onto the net, I will describe as best as poss.

    It needs to be pointed out that Padre Tosti, whose book was written in the late 19th century is quite an admirer of Boniface. On other points, he describes how Agnani is a virtual ghost town today and says that Boniface is rarely in Rome-- and one gets the impression that he is mostly in Agnani.

    At any rate the text itself does not refer to the object I am about to describe; only to say that there are historical artifacts still to be found in the church and adjoining papal palace. Much less does it describe what the meaning of the object is.

    It is the throne of Boniface: it is not a pic of a drawing or painting, but a pic of the actual object which apparently still is in existance today. Although the text does not specifically say it, this throne has to be the one before which the old codger was standing when confronted by Nogaret in what has to be the most dramatic moment of the church in the mid or late mid ages.

    Clearly shown on the back of the chair about  the neck and shoulder area(if Boniface were seated)  is a Knights Templar/Zionista /Judaic /Hexagram circuмscribed in a circle; it is about a foot and a half in diameter.

    I think there is something that says if a Pope is committing 'Open And Notorious Heresy' he can be declared an anti-pope although I can't remember the source.

    If anyone PM's me a snail mail address, I will send a copy. Ciao


    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #13 on: January 09, 2008, 11:12:40 PM »
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  • Roscoe, please do not post everything in bold. It negates the purpose of bold text when all your text is bold.

    Matthew
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    Offline roscoe

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    « Reply #14 on: January 09, 2008, 11:21:35 PM »
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  • If anyone knows someone in Italy near Agnani, an update on the current state of affairs would be interesting; Padre Tosti's work is over a hundred years old now.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'