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Author Topic: Karl Adam.  (Read 3908 times)

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Offline Clovis

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Karl Adam.
« on: January 20, 2010, 10:13:13 PM »
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  • I am reading the Spirit of Catholicism at the moment by him and I have to say I am finding it very enlightening and enjoyable. Does anybody know anything him? Is there anything in his writings to be cautious of?

    He refers to protestants as Christians which Im sure some on this forum would consider in and of itself heretical...but other than that?


    Offline roscoe

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    Karl Adam.
    « Reply #1 on: January 20, 2010, 10:45:02 PM »
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  • I am not familiar with him.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline Raoul76

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    Karl Adam.
    « Reply #2 on: January 20, 2010, 10:46:05 PM »
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  • Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline CM

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    Karl Adam.
    « Reply #3 on: January 21, 2010, 12:37:22 AM »
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  • Yes, burn it.  It is of this guy:  :devil2:

    Offline clare

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    Karl Adam.
    « Reply #4 on: January 21, 2010, 04:25:15 AM »
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  • Quote from: Clovis
    I am reading the Spirit of Catholicism at the moment by him and I have to say I am finding it very enlightening and enjoyable.


    I have that book somewhere!

    Quote
    He refers to protestants as Christians which Im sure some on this forum would consider in and of itself heretical...


    Pope Pius IX kind of did that too:
    Quote
    It is therefore by force of the right of Our supreme Apostolic ministry, entrusted to us by the same Christ the Lord, which, having to carry out with [supreme] participation all the duties of the good Shepherd and to follow and embrace with paternal love all the men of the world, we send this Letter of Ours to all the Christians from whom We are separated, with which we exhort them warmly and beseech them with insistence to hasten to return to the one fold of Christ; we desire in fact from the depths of the heart their salvation in Christ Jesus, and we fear having to render an account one day to Him, Our Judge, if, through some possibility, we have not pointed out and prepared the way for them to attain eternal salvation.


    And Leo XIII:
    Quote
    His empire includes not only Catholic nations, not only baptized persons who, though of right belonging to the Church, have been led astray by error, or have been cut off from her by schism, but also all those who are outside the Christian faith; so that truly the whole of mankind is subject to the power of Jesus Christ.

    (see he distinguishes between baptised non-Catholics, and those outside the Christian faith.)

    And Pope Benedict XV:
    Quote
    In every age it has been the concern of the Roman Pontiffs, Our predecessors, and likewise it concerns Us greatly, that Christians who have, unfortunately, withdrawn from the Catholic Religion should at length be recalled to us as a forsaken Mother.



    Offline 008

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    Karl Adam.
    « Reply #5 on: January 21, 2010, 12:27:53 PM »
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  • Quote
    He refers to protestants as Christians which Im sure some on this forum would consider in and of itself heretical...


    Pope Pius IX kind of did that too:
    Quote:
    It is therefore by force of the right of Our supreme Apostolic ministry, entrusted to us by the same Christ the Lord, which, having to carry out with [supreme] participation all the duties of the good Shepherd and to follow and embrace with paternal love all the men of the world, we send this Letter of Ours to all the Christians from whom We are separated, with which we exhort them warmly and beseech them with insistence to hasten to return to the one fold of Christ; we desire in fact from the depths of the heart their salvation in Christ Jesus, and we fear having to render an account one day to Him, Our Judge, if, through some possibility, we have not pointed out and prepared the way for them to attain eternal salvation.


    And Leo XIII:
    Quote:
    His empire includes not only Catholic nations, not only baptized persons who, though of right belonging to the Church, have been led astray by error, or have been cut off from her by schism, but also all those who are outside the Christian faith; so that truly the whole of mankind is subject to the power of Jesus Christ.

    (see he distinguishes between baptised non-Catholics, and those outside the Christian faith.)

    And Pope Benedict XV:
    Quote:
    In every age it has been the concern of the Roman Pontiffs, Our predecessors, and likewise it concerns Us greatly, that Christians who have, unfortunately, withdrawn from the Catholic Religion should at length be recalled to us as a forsaken Mother.



    Oh man, you just got three more Popes excommunicated by some in this forum  :pray:

    Offline clare

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    Karl Adam.
    « Reply #6 on: January 21, 2010, 12:35:12 PM »
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  • I think Benedict XV has already been excommunicated by them.


    Offline 008

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    Karl Adam.
    « Reply #7 on: January 21, 2010, 12:45:25 PM »
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  • Benedict XV? (15?) why would that be? Could you cite the sources, because this is important for this forum.



    Offline roscoe

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    Karl Adam.
    « Reply #8 on: January 21, 2010, 12:50:09 PM »
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  • The conclave of 1914 is as mysterious and questionable as the abdication of St Celestine and usurpation(?) of Boniface. The election of Alex VI is indeed much more probable than these two.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline 008

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    Karl Adam.
    « Reply #9 on: January 21, 2010, 12:58:22 PM »
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  • Quote
    The conclave of 1914 is as mysterious and questionable as the abdication of St Celestine and usurpation(?) of Boniface. The election of Alex VI is indeed much more probable than these two.


    Here we go. First the Sedevacantist mind implodes then he takes history with him down the vortex.

    Offline Caraffa

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    Karl Adam.
    « Reply #10 on: January 21, 2010, 04:28:04 PM »
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  • Raoul76, I know you don't like him either, but Fr. Fenton believed that Karl Adam's view of EENS was in error.
    Pray for me, always.


    Offline clare

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    Karl Adam.
    « Reply #11 on: January 21, 2010, 04:51:43 PM »
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  • The whole book under discussion is available online here. Yes, it's EWTN. Sorry about that!

    Offline CM

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    Karl Adam.
    « Reply #12 on: January 21, 2010, 05:55:43 PM »
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  • Adams is heretical for inculcating the proposition that heretics are able to "grow and progress in union with Christ," while outside the Church.  There is no union with Christ if you are CUT OFF from Him.

    Sadly, Clare has made a feeble attempt at using verbiage of popes to justify this monstrosity of a belief:

    Quote from: clare
    Quote from: Clovis
    He refers to protestants as Christians which Im sure some on this forum would consider in and of itself heretical...


    Protestants who are validly baptized have the indelible character imprinted on their souls, which distinguishes them as FALLEN AWAY CHRISTIANS.  When a person speaks of heretics as Christians in such a way as to imply that they are okay in their false religion, however, this smacks of heresy.

    Quote from: clare
    Pope Pius IX kind of did that too:
    Quote
    It is therefore by force of the right of Our supreme Apostolic ministry, entrusted to us by the same Christ the Lord, which, having to carry out with [supreme] participation all the duties of the good Shepherd and to follow and embrace with paternal love all the men of the world, we send this Letter of Ours to all the Christians from whom We are separated, with which we exhort them warmly and beseech them with insistence to hasten to return to the one fold of Christ; we desire in fact from the depths of the heart their salvation in Christ Jesus, and we fear having to render an account one day to Him, Our Judge, if, through some possibility, we have not pointed out and prepared the way for them to attain eternal salvation.


    He's not saying "Go ahead and worship Christ in your own way and you'll be saved, after all you're Christians!"

    Quote from: clare
    And Leo XIII:
    Quote
    His empire includes not only Catholic nations, not only baptized persons who, though of right belonging to the Church, have been led astray by error, or have been cut off from her by schism, but also all those who are outside the Christian faith; so that truly the whole of mankind is subject to the power of Jesus Christ.

    (see he distinguishes between baptised non-Catholics, and those outside the Christian faith.)


    You did not present the context of his encyclical.  
    He is simply showing in this encyclical that Jesus Christ is the Supreme Ruler over the whole world.  He's not coming even close to heretical, and nor is he implying that there is salvation in any so-called Christian religions or non-Christian religion (while the baptized heretic has the Christian character on his soul, his religion is NOT CHRISTIAN - but Satanic).

    Quote from: Pope Leo XIII, Annum Sacrum
    Blessed Margaret Mary Alacoque's reception of the Divine command to propagate the worship of the Sacred Heart, many letters from all parts, not merely from private persons but from Bishops also were sent to Pius IX begging that he would consent to consecrate the whole human race to the Most Sacred Heart of Jesus. It was thought best at the time to postpone the matter in order that a well considered decision might be arrived at...

    This world-wide and solemn testimony of allegiance and piety is especially appropriate to Jesus Christ, who is the Head and Supreme Lord of the race. His empire extends not only over Catholic nations and those who, having been duly washed in the waters of holy baptism, belong of right to the Church, although erroneous opinions keep them astray, or dissent from her teaching cuts them off from her care; it comprises also all those who are deprived of the Christian faith, so that the whole human race is most truly under the power of Jesus Christ. For He who is the Only-begotten Son of God the Father, having the same substance with Him and being the brightness of His glory and the figure of His substance (Hebrews i., 3) necessarily has everything in common with the Father, and therefore sovereign power over all things. This is why the Son of God thus speaks of Himself through the Prophet: "But I am appointed king by him over Sion, his holy mountain. . . The Lord said to me, Thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me and I will give thee the Gentiles for thy inheritance and the utmost parts of the earth for thy possession" (Psalm, ii.). By these words He declares that He has power from God over the whole Church, which is signified by Mount Sion, and also over the rest of the world to its uttermost ends. On what foundation this sovereign power rests is made sufficiently plain by the words, "Thou art My Son." For by the very fact that He is the Son of the King of all, He is also the heir of all His Father's power: hence the words - "I will give thee the Gentiles for thy inheritance," which are similar to those used by Paul the Apostle, "whom he hath appointed heir of all things" (Hebrews i., 2).



    Quote from: clare
    And [anti]Pope Benedict XV:
    Quote
    In every age it has been the concern of the Roman Pontiffs, Our predecessors, and likewise it concerns Us greatly, that Christians who have, unfortunately, withdrawn from the Catholic Religion should at length be recalled to us as a forsaken Mother.


    While I have no qualms with this particular statement of antipope Benedict XV, since he is acknowledging them as fallen away Christians, I reject him on other grounds.

    Offline roscoe

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    Karl Adam.
    « Reply #13 on: January 21, 2010, 06:21:47 PM »
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  • Quote from: 008
    Quote
    The conclave of 1914 is as mysterious and questionable as the abdication of St Celestine and usurpation(?) of Boniface. The election of Alex VI is indeed much more probable than these two.


    Here we go. First the Sedevacantist mind implodes then he takes history with him down the vortex.


    Even if there is such a thing as a 'sede vacantist'( which is highly doubtful), I am not one.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Online Ladislaus

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    Karl Adam.
    « Reply #14 on: January 21, 2010, 06:52:28 PM »
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  • Quote from: CM
    While I have no qualms with this particular statement of antipope Benedict XV, since he is acknowledging them as fallen away Christians, I reject him on other grounds.


    I read your blog post.

    Redemption:

    You cite "redemption for many" in Matthew 20:28 but conveniently fail to mention the "redemption for all" in 1 Timothy 2:6 (and elsewere in the Scriptures).  In other words, both are true.  There was a redemption for all (objective, sufficient for all) AND a redemption for many (subjective, efficacious for many).  By your standards, St. Paul was a heretic for using the phrase "redemption for all".

    Benedict XV says no one is EXCLUDED from the benefit, meaning that it is AVAILABLE to anyone who wants it.  You turn that into some bizarre teaching of universal salvation.

    Shame on you, CM.  Again you turn your amateur theology into a false accusation of heresy, against a Catholic Pope no less.  In so doing, CM, you are in fact being objectively (at least materially) heretical.