Author Topic: Just 12 seminarians enter Maynooth (Read 1685 times)

John Grace · « **on:** August 29, 2012, 03:44:36 PM »

Just 12 seminarians enter Maynooth
http://lxoa.wordpress.com/2012/08/28/just-12-seminarians-enter-maynooth/

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Pope Benedict XVI once pointed out to the American bishops that vocations are an index of the health of a local church. If so, the numbers entering Maynooth this year are a damning indictment of the Irish Church and its leadership.

A mere 12 seminarians are entering St. Patrick’s this year, compared with 22 in 2011, 16 in 2010 and 36 in 2009. A generous estimate would include about half of them continuing their studies to ordination in 2019. A mere six priests for all of Ireland in 2019! Such numbers are spectacularly inadequate to sustain Ireland’s ecclesiastical infrastructure.

The Irish bishops’ much-celebrated Year for Vocations in 2008-2009 was a failure. Numbers entering Maynooth increased by only 20% in 2009 from the previous year, a relatively insignificant jump when you consider both the low base from which it proceeded and the vast resources that were poured into the campaign. This could be partly attributed to the fallout from the Ryan Report released that year; likewise, the even lower numbers for this year and 2011 might have been affected by the impact of the Cloyne Report and the Cardinal Brady scandal. But the collapse of vocations continues an ongoing trend from long before the sex scandals emerged in the 1990s. By the late 1980s vocations had collapsed to such an extent that Cardinal O’Fiaich provoked surprise when he predicted that Ireland would soon have to import priests from Africa. Even a writer as hostile to the Church as Malachi O’Doherty observes in Empty Pulpits that the dearth of vocations can’t be attributed wholesale to the sex scandals: “Even before that shock hit, there were few left in their right minds who would want to take holy orders.”

One reason for the failure of the Year of Vocations lay in the insipid marketing mentality which has come to dominate the Irish episcopal conference and its attendant bureaucracy. In common with the consumerist mentality of western society, the Irish bishops thought you could solve a problem just by throwing money at it and hiring some advertising consultants. Another reason lay in the campaign’s secular and naturalist presentation of the priesthood. The priest’s role of ‘service’ and ‘listening’ was heavily emphasized, but in such a way that priesthood was portrayed as just another career, entirely devoid of a supernatural character.

I would suggest that the crisis in vocations has much deeper roots. Perusing historic ordination statistics for Maynooth, one is immediately impressed with the fact that the crisis in vocations goes back all the way to the 1960s. Ordinations at Maynooth peaked in 1963 when 558 new priests were ordained. The trajectory after that is unrelentingly downward. This is particularly dramatic in the case of Dublin. In 1962 (the same year the Second Vatican Council began its deliberations) 21 new priests from Maynooth (Note: Dublin also had its own seminary at Clonliffe until 2001) were ordained for the diocese of Dublin. By 1970, a mere eight years later, only 2 new priests from Maynooth were ordained for that highly populated diocese. The following year seen the ordination of just 1 priest, while no Dublin priests were ordained in 1972, a trend that continued until 1982 (when one Dublin priest was ordained).

It seems somewhat curious that Archbishop Diarmuid Martin incessantly focuses on the defects (real or perceived) of the pre-conciliar Irish Church (which, for all its problems, certainly had no crisis in vocations) while largely ignoring the demise of his own archdiocese, which is (literally) dying off rapidly before our very eyes. Dublin contains over a million Catholics, yet Archbishop Diarmuid Martin can persuade only 4 Catholic men in his archdiocese to become a diocesan priest. Meanwhile a whole generation of clergy are passing with no-one to replace them.

A bishop who cannot ensure enough recruits to sustain his diocese has failed. Alas, the renewal of Irish Catholicism that the Pope calls for is being implemented by the same men who have led us into this mess.

The crisis of vocations is a crisis of priesthood, a crisis of faith, a crisis of catechesis, and a crisis of bishops – all at the same time. Most Irish Catholics, perhaps most Irish priests, no longer even know what a priest is. As such it can’t be reasonably expected that they’d consider it a path worth pursuing.

The prospect currently haunting Irish Catholicism is not decline, but extinction.

John Grace · « **Reply #1 on:** August 29, 2012, 03:48:57 PM »

There is no doubt we are living among the ruins in Ireland. The Church and Ireland has to rebuilt. A new type of man has to emerge.Among the ruins will emerge something greater.It's going to be a glorious thing. I personally believe our own crusade is a holy crusade. In ways, I believe the Irish are a chosen people and a flame imperishable will blaze out from Ireland.

Hobbledehoy · « **Reply #2 on:** August 29, 2012, 04:30:49 PM »

The enemies of Holy Mother Church will stop at nothing to destroy the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. One way of doing that is by destroying Sacerdotal vocations.

From the tome Explanation of the Prayers and Ceremonies of Holy Mass: Taken from Notes Made at the Conferences of Dom Prosper Guéranger, Abbot of Solesmes (trans. Dom Laurence Shepherd; London: Burns & Oates, 1885), here is what certainly seems to be the chilling foreshadowing of our times:

Hobbledehoy · « **Reply #3 on:** August 29, 2012, 05:10:49 PM »

From The Vesperal, Containing the Offices of Vespers and Compline for Every Day in the Year according to the Use of the Roman Church with a Parallel English Translation, the Offices Proper to the Feasts which Are Kept Locally in English-Speaking Countries, and the Prayers for the Rite of Benediction, compiled by the Benedictine Nuns of Stanbrook Abbey (London: Burns Oates & Washbourne, Ltd., 1924), here is a Litany of Irish Saints whereby one may supplicate Our Lord and His Blessed Mother so that, by the patronage of these same glorious Saints, Ireland may be once more a bulwark of Holy Mother Church.

Mathieu · « **Reply #4 on:** August 29, 2012, 07:10:30 PM »

Yes, it seems that is where we are right now ...

Ascetik · « **Reply #5 on:** August 29, 2012, 07:46:03 PM »

I have a friend who I talk to on occasion from Ireland who lives in Kilkenny, she is younger, about 17. I try not to talk to her a lot because of how worldly she is. She is self-professed Wiccan and does Tarot readings and nonsense like that. She talks about how Ireland is in such bad shape sometimes and I simply tell her it's because Ireland has abandoned God and that they need to get back to the true faith. She is not Christian, so she does not understand this. I just tell her, if it wasn't for St. Patrick, Ireland would still be a very barbaric nation. She doesn't seem to understand that Ireland was made civilized completely by Christianity.

Most young European teenagers and young adults are absolutely blind and clueless to the problems of their countries and how to solve the issues. When I talk to them they are usually complaining about how there are so many Muslims in their countries or how the prices of everything are going up and that people are so lazy, mean, etc. I try to explain to them that the cause of this is a lack of grace and a lack of faith in God. They never seem to understand that, and it's because God has allowed them to be blinded by their lack of faith. Nothing short of a chastisement could save Europe now.

Sigismund · « **Reply #6 on:** August 29, 2012, 09:23:17 PM »

John Grace,

Are there any priests being ordained for religious orders in Ireland?

Hobbledehoy · « **Reply #7 on:** August 30, 2012, 11:34:39 AM »

Here is a beautiful prayer for Holy Mother Church composed by Saint Alphonsus, taken from the Manuale C.Ss.R. (New York: Provincial Residence, 1955).

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #8 on:** August 30, 2012, 01:00:37 PM »

Pray that the SSPX presence in Ireland is strengthened because that is where the Holy Church is. Not the novus ordites deceivers.

I also hope that Ireland has a strong sedevacantist presence.

We must find the Church where it is.

John Grace · « **Reply #9 on:** August 30, 2012, 03:09:14 PM »

Quote from: Sigismund

John Grace,

Are there any priests being ordained for religious orders in Ireland?

I assume you mean religious orders saying the Novus Ordo? The Dominicans are the strongest when it comes to vocations.

I did a quick google search for the Augustinians

http://www.vocationsireland.com/vinews.php?Ordination-celebrations-at-St.-Augustine-s-in-Cork-124

Quote

"Fr Colm is the first priestly ordination for the Irish provenance of Augustine in the last 18 years so it was a particular joy for me, the Friars and the 2,000 strong congregation at St Augustine's, Washington Street, Cork to witness and be part of such a wonderful celebration," stated the bishop after the ordination.

I wouldn't regard these as being ordained as I don't believe the Novus Ordo to be valid and their ordinations are also defective.

Recently an Irish man joined the SSPX. He received the cassock in Winona. The SSPX should have another Irish priest next year.

John Grace · « **Reply #10 on:** August 30, 2012, 03:29:07 PM »

Quote from: Capt McQuigg

Pray that the SSPX presence in Ireland is strengthened because that is where the Holy Church is. Not the novus ordites deceivers.

I also hope that Ireland has a strong sedevacantist presence.

We must find the Church where it is.

The worst in many ways are those involved in the 'approved' Traditional Mass world.In Dublin for example attendance at the weekly Sunday Mass at the Latin Mass chaplaincy is determined by which schola is there. If a particular schola is present the attendance at Mass is higher.

Atleast with the SSPX, you have an apostolate and not have people attend Mass just because a particular schola are present.

Also what I don't agree with is priests who say both the Traditional Mass and the Novus Ordo. I would stay well clear of Diocesan priests offering the 'extraordinary form'. I realise many are well intentioned and devout priests but it is a total compromise.

John Grace · « **Reply #11 on:** August 30, 2012, 03:37:49 PM »

As I said in my initial post, we are living among the ruins and Ireland has to be rebuilt.

There is resistance.Recently I became aware of a group of teachers who are prepared to go to prison if the sodomite agenda is brought in to the primary schools. The primary school age group is 4-12 year olds. In the secondary schools even the 'Catholic' schools bring in speakers regarding 'homophobic' bullying. One particular Dominican Convent school brought in the sodomite David Norris.He is a Senator in Ireland.

To be honest, I feel we need to go back to the Hedge Schools.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedge_school

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A hedge school (Irish names include scoil chois claí, scoil ghairid and scoil scairte) is the name given to an educational practice in 18th and 19th century Ireland, so called due to its rural nature. It came about as local educated men began an oral tradition of teaching the community. With the advent of the commercial world in Ireland after 1600, its peasant society saw the need for greater education.

While the "hedge school" label suggests the classes always took place outdoors (next to a hedgerow), classes were sometimes held in a house or barn. Subjects included primarily basic Irish language grammar, English and maths (the fundamental "three Rs"). In some schools the Irish bardic tradition, Latin, history and home economics were also taught. Reading was generally based on chapbooks, sold at fairs, typically with exciting stories of well-known adventurers and outlaws. Payment was generally made per subject, and brighter pupils would often compete locally with their teachers.

While Catholic schools were forbidden under the Penal laws from 1723 to 1782, no hedge teachers were known to be prosecuted. Indeed, official records were made of hedge schools by census makers. [1] The laws' main target was education by the main Catholic religious orders, whose wealthier establishments were occasionally confiscated. The laws aimed to force Irish Catholics of the middle classes and gentry to convert to Anglicanism if they wanted a good education in Ireland.
Hedge schools declined from the foundation of the National School system by government in the 1830s. James Doyle, Bishop of Kildare and Leighlin preferred this, as the new schools would be largely under the control of his church and allow a better teaching of Catholic doctrine.[citation needed] He wrote to his priests in 1831:
“ [The Roman Catholic bishops] welcomed the rule which requires that all the teachers henceforth to be employed be provided from some Model School, with a certificate of their competency, that will aid us in a work of great difficulty, to wit, that of suppressing hedge schools, and placing youths under the direction of competent teachers, and of those only. ”

Fernández-Suárez (see below) has found that hedge schools existed into the 1890s and suggested that the schools had existed as much from rural poverty and a lack of resources as from religious oppression. Marianne Eliott also mentions that they were used by the poor and not just by the Catholics. While the hedge schools were unfunded, the national school system set up from 1831 was ahead of school provision in England at that time. After 1900, some historians like Daniel Corkery tended to emphasize the hedge schools' classical studies (in Latin and Greek), but while these studies were sometimes taught (based on a local demand), they were not always common to every school.

Sigismund · « **Reply #12 on:** August 31, 2012, 07:08:18 PM »

Quote from: Sigismund

John Grace,

Are there any priests being ordained for religious orders in Ireland?

Oh come on now! Down thumbing me for asking a simple question? Not even a controversial one, just a simple request for information. That is just plain childish.

So, in that spirit....

Who are you? Man up and say, "Yeah, I am the one with the enormous cyber-grudge that I carry from thread to thread, down thumbing even the most innocuous post by someone I don't like in a craven display of internet forum anonymity. Go ahead. I dare you. I double dare you. In fact, I double dog dare you. Bwwaakk, Bwaakk, Bwaakk... (Please imagine an emoticon of a squawking chicken.)

:wink:

Sigismund · « **Reply #13 on:** August 31, 2012, 07:10:24 PM »

Quote from: John Grace

Quote from: Sigismund
John Grace,

Are there any priests being ordained for religious orders in Ireland?

I assume you mean religious orders saying the Novus Ordo? The Dominicans are the strongest when it comes to vocations.

I did a quick google search for the Augustinians

http://www.vocationsireland.com/vinews.php?Ordination-celebrations-at-St.-Augustine-s-in-Cork-124
Quote
"Fr Colm is the first priestly ordination for the Irish provenance of Augustine in the last 18 years so it was a particular joy for me, the Friars and the 2,000 strong congregation at St Augustine's, Washington Street, Cork to witness and be part of such a wonderful celebration," stated the bishop after the ordination.

I wouldn't regard these as being ordained as I don't believe the Novus Ordo to be valid and their ordinations are also defective.

Recently an Irish man joined the SSPX. He received the cassock in Winona. The SSPX should have another Irish priest next year.

Well, we don't agree about the validity of the NO, so I was thinking about NO as well as trad ordinations. Thanks for the information. I appreciate it.