Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: stevusmagnus on July 02, 2013, 12:05:19 PM
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http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/giovanni-xxiii-john-xxiii-juan-xxiii-26148/
The Good Pope, sainted within the year
Pope John XXIII
“He cured a dying nun”. The canonization will be at the same time as Wojtyla
ANDREA TORNIELLI
vatican city
Wojtyla "instant saint" but along with John XXIII, the "Good Pope." This morning at the Vatican cardinals and bishops who are members of the “ordinary” Congregation of Saints, were meeting to examine various cases before the summer. Among these, the miracle attributed to the intercession of Blessed John Paul II, the instantaneous healing of a woman. The last crucial step before Francesco’s final seal of approval, which will lead to the canonization in record time, of the Polish Pontiff beatified two years ago.
But surprisingly, the cardinals and bishops will also discuss another subject, added in the last few days, the canonization of John XXIII, the Pope who convened the Second Vatican Council, who died fifty years ago in June and was beatified in 2000. An unexpected turn of events, which attests to the desire to celebrate the two sanctifications together, bringing the halo and the universal worship to both the Pope of Bergamo, and Pope John Paul II.
The most likely date for the ceremony during which Roncalli and Wojtyla could be canonized is next December, immediately after the conclusion of the Year of Faith, given that the initial hypothesis of October seems less and less feasible due to time constraints and organizational problems . Cardinal Angelo Amato, Prefect of the Congregation for the Causes of Saints, after the decision taken this morning, will meet Francesco and in the next few days the news of the two Popes Saints may be made permanently official.
It was John Paul II, in September 2000, during the Jubilee year, to proclaim John XXIII, Blessed, joining in the celebration was also the beatification of Pius IX, the last Pope king. On that occasion, moving Roncalli up his first step to the altar, was the miracle of healing to Sister Caterina Capitani, which occurred in 1966.
As is well known according to the canonical norms for canonization it is necessary to recognise a second miracle that occurs after the beatification. Over the last thirteen years there have been various reports of blessings and alleged miracles attributed to the intercession of Roncalli, but until recently it was not known that one of them had passed the scrutiny of medical consultations and theologians from the Vatican’s "factory of saints”. It is therefore possible that they have decided to shorten the timeframe. The Pope has the ability, if desired, to supersede the recognition of the miracle and proceed nonetheless with a canonization after having heard the advice of the cardinals in the congregation
It was 19:49 on the 3rd June 1963, when the crowd in St. Peter's Square, seeing the lights come on in the bedroom of the papal apartment, learned of the death of John XXIII. In less than five years the elderly prelate from Bergamo, elected as a “transitional” Pope was just entering into the hearts of the world, for the simplicity of his actions and words. The visits to the Regina Coeli prison and to the sick children of the Child Jesus Hospital, both in Rome and his visits to the parishes had made him very popular. The historic decision to convene an ecuмenical Council has changed the face of the Church, even if Roncalli would not have seen the end, being able to conclude only the first of the four sessions of the Council.
The suggestion by several bishops to proclaim John saint by acclamation was still open to the Council. His successor, Paul VI, chose to follow the canonical route by opening a formal canonical process and wanted Roncalli to be alongside his predecessor Pius XII.
http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/wojtyla-wojtyla-wojtyla-26154/
Wojtyla, the Congregation recognises the second miracle
John Paul II will be canonised within the year. The canonisation ceremony could be held in December
The plenary meeting of cardinals and bishops of the Congregation for the Causes of Saints this morning approved the second miracle attributed to 'the intercession of John Paul II. As anticipated by Vatican Insider, Pope Wojtyla will be made a saint in all probability within the year and the canonisation ceremony could be held in December.
The pronouncement of the cardinals and bishops today, after the medical consultation and commission of theologians had approved the second miracle, needed to certify that the healing, deemed inexplicable, was actually carried out by the intercession of the Polish Pope. This is the last step before the signing of the decree by the Pope, who will then convene a Consistory at which will be announced the date of the canonisation.
The miracle was performed by John Paul II on the same evening of the beatification, the 1st of May 2011. During the meeting, the cardinals and bishops of the Congregation would have spoken in favour of the canonisation in December after the conclusion of the Year of Faith. Everything, however, is left to the will of the Pope from which you could have expected "surprises". Pope Francesco would be very pleased, as it would seal the end of the Year of Faith, the contemporary proclamation of the holiness of Pope John Paul II and Pope John XXIII.
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:smash-pc: :smash-pc: :smash-pc:
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Okay, so Pius IX is still not canonized. There isn't even a movement, to the best of my knowledge, for the canonization of Leo XIII. And yet JPII is sainted within a few years of his death? And to add insult to injury, they're adding John XXIII? Why not just throw in Paul VI and be done with it?
I hope Our Lord prevents this somehow.
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Why not just throw in Paul VI and be done with it?
Give New Church time.
I hope Our Lord prevents this somehow.
Hear, Hear! :applause:
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Associated Press on His Holiness Pope Pius IX in the context of Newchurch canonizations:
From AP article at http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_VATICAN_JOHN_PAUL_II?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-07-02-09-29-43 :
But the Vatican in the past has sought to balance concerns about papal saints by giving two the honor at the same time. Such was the case in 2000, when John Paul beatified John XXIII, dubbed the "good pope," alongside Pope Pius IX, who confined Jews to Rome's ghetto, condoned the seizure of a Jєωιѕн boy and allegedly referred to Jews as dogs.
By canonizing John Paul II along with John XXIII, the Vatican could be seeking to assuage concerns about John Paul's fast-track sainthood case by tying it together with the 50-year wait John XXIII has had to endure.
:cussing:
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Okay, so Pius IX is still not canonized. There isn't even a movement, to the best of my knowledge, for the canonization of Leo XIII. And yet JPII is sainted within a few years of his death? And to add insult to injury, they're adding John XXIII? Why not just throw in Paul VI and be done with it?
I hope Our Lord prevents this somehow.
Good point. Why are the conciliarists ignoring the very saintly Paul VI? He's the one who instituted the real changes in the church, rendering it into the conciliarist dream house that it is now.
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They should just roll out to St. Peter's Square the docuмents of VII and encase them in gold in a public ceremony. These wolves have no shame. Could it be any more obvious that every single VII "pope" will be declared either venerable or blessed or eventually "canonized?" I've said it before many times - I have no doubt whatsoever that BXVI's "canonization" is already in the works before he even dies.
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Okay, so Pius IX is still not canonized. There isn't even a movement, to the best of my knowledge, for the canonization of Leo XIII. And yet JPII is sainted within a few years of his death? And to add insult to injury, they're adding John XXIII? Why not just throw in Paul VI and be done with it?
I hope Our Lord prevents this somehow.
Why ? His enemies should be allowed to over play their hand and betray their true identity as malicious impostors. The evil of their folly will be converted by God into good for the Church in the long run. It makes everything far clearer. What would be even better is if the Vatican begins a provisional deaconess program within roughly the same time frame. Then no Catholic of good will could possibly be mistaken about where the Church is and where the Church is not, and we could begin to aid the restoration without so much hesitation and uncertainty.
Objectively, of course, these are evils that we cannot positively will to happen. But I, for one, hope that God permits whatever is necessary for the cup of punishment to be filled so that justice can be done and seen by all. The sooner these times end, the better for us all.
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His [Our Lord's] enemies should be allowed to over play their hand and betray their true identity as malicious impostors. The evil of their folly will be converted by God into good for the Church in the long run. It makes everything far clearer. What would be even better is if the Vatican begins a provisional deaconess program within roughly the same time frame. Then no Catholic of good will could possibly be mistaken about where the Church is and where the Church is not, and we could begin to aid the restoration without so much hesitation and uncertainty.
I remember Bp. Sanborn saying once that he's all for women's ordination in the Conciliar Church for this very reason.
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If Mandela snuffs it in time, they'll probably shoot for the trifecta.
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It's exactly what we should expect.
The new church's objective is to canonise the whole world. After all, everyone is saved and Hell does not exist?
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JPII would be a perfect saint for the Montinian Church (est. 1965). I hope a future pope straightens this all out. The Montinianites could all embrace their man, Paul VI, and return to the banjo masses that they so love and they could preach indifferentism from the rooftops for all I care. However, in this time of grave moral confusion, good hearted people are mistaking the current vatican for the Catholic Church when it's an imposter.
I'm not sure he maintained his Catholicism during life. He embraced syncretism to such an extent and he issued a new Code of Canon Law allowing non-Catholics to receive Holy Communion and everything else about the man....
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Good points Captain.
Although, most Polish people I know have an inordinate attachment to him and his so called pontificate. They are a driving force behind his "canonisation".
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But I, for one, hope that God permits whatever is necessary for the cup of punishment to be filled so that justice can be done and seen by all.
It ain't gonna be pretty, and EVERYONE is going to get slammed with ferocity beyond imagining. Don't think the good guys will get to hang out on the sidelines, munching popcorn and cheering. Our Lady has been begging God to stay His wrath for a long time. I strongly suspect that when time is up we'll wish we'd used the time we had to better effect, and wish for more time. But it will be too late then.
Maybe "Lord have mercy" would be a better prayer than "Bring it on."
Just sayin'.
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I don't believe the Novus Ordo canonizations are infallible anymore. Does this make me a sedevacantist?
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As a Polish American whose spiritual journey has been hindered many times by the indifferentist heretic Wojtyla, I want to pray BOTH.
"Lord, have mercy" because I am working towards full communion with Holy Church, and I can use all the mercy I can get
and
"Bring it on" because it is time for the world to take its medicine. The prelates at Vomitous II, or at least the vast majority of them, ratified docuмents that undermine and attack the Faith. We all will now have the chance to sanctify our souls in this time of trial like never before. I welcome the struggle because Our Lord Jesus Christ, His Church and Our Lady are worth it.
Immaculate Heart of Mary, triumph soon!
Most Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us.
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I don't believe the Novus Ordo canonizations are infallible anymore. Does this make me a sedevacantist?
Does it really matter? I say not. Clearly both types of sede's (-vecantists and -previsionists) would disagree with me.
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After Fr. Luigi Villa passed (http://www.chiesaviva.com/) I was expecting the cause of John XXIII to advance but I'm shocked they're doing a VII twofer. Anything to bless that disastrous council.
They'll deny any given miracle in Scripture (such as the fishes and loaves weren't really multiplied, He just got strangers to share the spare bread and fish-jerky ancient folks used to keep in their pockets) but they'll trumpet these miracles from the hilltops.
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Why not just throw in Paul VI and be done with it?
Give New Church time.
I hope Our Lord prevents this somehow.
Hear, Hear! :applause:
Maybe lightning will strike the Vatican THREE times on that day! :laugh1:
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I have no words to describe my feelings on this situation.
The lightning striking the cross on top of St. Peter's Basilica can
be interpreted in many ways.
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I don't believe the Novus Ordo canonizations are infallible anymore. Does this make me a sedevacantist?
No. I think there is a case to be made that JPII and now Francis so altered the Traditional canonization process as to take away its infallibility. They stripped it of all of the safeguards necessary to protect the process.
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I don't believe the Novus Ordo canonizations are infallible anymore. Does this make me a sedevacantist?
No. I think there is a case to be made that JPII and now Francis so altered the Traditional canonization process as to take away its infallibility. They stripped it of all of the safeguards necessary to protect the process.
No it does not.
One is a "sedevacantist" if one rejects the claim of Bergoglio to be the pope. That is all.
Those who reject the authority of the man they declare pope are.... Well, you should answer that for yourself.
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I don't believe the Novus Ordo canonizations are infallible anymore. Does this make me a sedevacantist?
No. I think there is a case to be made that JPII and now Francis so altered the Traditional canonization process as to take away its infallibility. They stripped it of all of the safeguards necessary to protect the process.
No it does not.
One is a "sedevacantist" if one rejects the claim of Bergoglio to be the pope. That is all.
Those who reject the authority of the man they declare pope are.... Well, you should answer that for yourself.
Is it duty for a Catholic to determine this? Or is it safe enough to assume that a Catholic can, and should, recognize that one sits in the Chair of Peter, and should only recognize that which is Catholic, and that which is not?
Merely questions.
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Okay, so Pius IX is still not canonized. There isn't even a movement, to the best of my knowledge, for the canonization of Leo XIII. And yet JPII is sainted within a few years of his death? And to add insult to injury, they're adding John XXIII? Why not just throw in Paul VI and be done with it?
I hope Our Lord prevents this somehow. [/quote
He is next along with Dorothy day. There is major push for vAtican ll.
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Is Bishop Fellay going to participate in the festivities in honor of the new "saints"?
This is also smokescreen to cover up Vatican pedaphile ring of abuse of little boys.
Even the Pope admits to major ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ lobby within Vatican ll church.
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I heard that the deed might be done in october
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I don't believe the Novus Ordo canonizations are infallible anymore. Does this make me a sedevacantist?
No. I think there is a case to be made that JPII and now Francis so altered the Traditional canonization process as to take away its infallibility. They stripped it of all of the safeguards necessary to protect the process.
No it does not.
One is a "sedevacantist" if one rejects the claim of Bergoglio to be the pope. That is all.
Those who reject the authority of the man they declare pope are.... Well, you should answer that for yourself.
Is it duty for a Catholic to determine this? Or is it safe enough to assume that a Catholic can, and should, recognize that one sits in the Chair of Peter, and should only recognize that which is Catholic, and that which is not?
Merely questions.
Let's not derail the topic too much.
It is not a moral duty for a Catholic to determine this, which is why Catholics in good faith can (at this time) disagree on the question.
Is it safe to "assume a Catholic can...recognize" Francis to be pope? Yes, of course. See my answer above.
Is it safe to "assume a Catholic...should recognize" Francis to be pope? No. Because once a Catholic presumes to pass judgment upon the person of the man he absolutely declares to be the pope whenever said pope opens his mouth, issues a docuмent on faith or morals, or makes a command he could begin to deny the papacy itself which would break communion with the Catholic Church.
The sedevacantist position is the safer course because it leaves the faith in tact.
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Lourdes, France has suffered flooding twice in the recent past. The first time was the day relics of John Paul 2 were scheduled to be put on public display in Lourdes. The second was the day the Vatican announced that they confirmed a miracle that paved the way for his canonization.
The one place on earth I would not want to be visiting on December 8th, if the date of this pseudo-canonization is correct, is Lourdes, France.
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I heard about Lourdes being damaged because of flooding.
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This is the reason that the Devil's Advocate should never have been done away with in the canonization process.
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Wow! That's a really cool picture! I didn't even have to use my imagination too much to see the resemblance.
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Okay, so Pius IX is still not canonized. There isn't even a movement, to the best of my knowledge, for the canonization of Leo XIII. And yet JPII is sainted within a few years of his death? And to add insult to injury, they're adding John XXIII? Why not just throw in Paul VI and be done with it?
I hope Our Lord prevents this somehow.
If Paul VI why not Bugnini? How about the other John XXIII (1370-1419)? :really-mad2:
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[7] Be not deceived, God is not mocked. [8] For what things a man shall sow, those also shall he reap. For he that soweth in his flesh, of the flesh also shall reap corruption. But he that soweth in the spirit, of the spirit shall reap life everlasting.
Galatians 6:7-8
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This thread is:
JPII to be Canonized With John XXIII on Feast of Immaculate Conception!, JPII's Second Miracle Confirmed
Does anyone notice the irony of this?
The Paedophile Pope is going to be Newchurch Con-anized on
the Feast of the Immaculate Conception?
Lourdes, France has suffered flooding twice in the recent past. The first time was the day relics of John Paul 2 were scheduled to be put on public display in Lourdes. The second was the day the Vatican announced that they confirmed a miracle that paved the way for his canonization.
The one place on earth I would not want to be visiting on December 8th, if the date of this pseudo-canonization is correct, is Lourdes, France.
Yes, I'd say that Lourdes, where Our Lady told St. Bernadette the
words, "I am the Immaculate Conception," is not the best place to
be on the Feast of the Immaculate Conception when Our Lady is
MOCKED on that day in Rome.
But Rome will probably not be such a hot idea either, especially
since that's where all the gah-gah fans will be congregating.