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Author Topic: JPII Opening Address at Assisi I  (Read 5022 times)

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Offline stevusmagnus

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JPII Opening Address at Assisi I
« on: April 19, 2011, 07:37:31 PM »
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  • Take note of the portions I boldfaced...

    http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/1986/october/docuмents/hf_jp-ii_spe_19861027_prayer-peace-assisi_en.html

    My Brothers and Sisters,
    Heads and Representatives of the Christian Churches
    and Ecclesial Communities and of the World Religions,
    Dear Friends,

    1. HAVE THE HONOUR and pleasure of welcoming all of you for our World Day of Prayer in this town of Assisi. Let me begin by thanking you from the bottom of my heart, for the openness and good will with which you have accepted my invitation to pray at Assisi.

    As religious leaders you have come here not for an interreligious Conference on peace, where the emphasis would be on discussion or research for plans of action on a worldwide scale in favour of a common cause.

    The coming together of so many religious leaders to pray is in itself an invitation today to the world to become aware that there exists another dimension of peace and another way of promoting it which is not a result of negotiations, political compromises or economic bargainings. It is the result of prayer, which, in the diversity of religions, expresses a relationship with a supreme power that surpasses our human capacities alone.

    We come from afar, not only, for many of us, by reason of geographical distance, but above all because of our respective historical and spiritual origins.

    2. The fact that we have come here does not imply any intention of seeking a religious consensus among ourselves or of negotiating our faith convictions. Neither does it mean that religions can be reconciled at the level of a common commitment in an earthly project which would surpass them all. Nor is it a concession to relativism in religious beliefs, because every human being must sincerely follow his or her upright conscience with the intention of seeking and obeying the truth.

    Our meeting attests only - and this is its real significance for the people of our time - that in the great battle for peace, humanity, in its very diversity, must draw from its deepest and most vivifying sources where its conscience is formed and upon which is founded the moral action of all people.

    3. I see this gathering today as a very significant sign of the commitment of all of you to the cause of peace. It is this commitment that has brought us to Assisi. The fact that we profess different creeds does not detract from the significance of this Day. On the contrary, the Churches, Ecclesial Communities and World Religions are showing that they are eager for the good of humanity.

    Peace, where it exists, is always extremely fragile. It is threatened in so many ways and with such unforeseeable consequences that we must endeavour to provide it with secure foundations. Without in any way denying the need for the many human resources which maintain and strengthen peace, we are here because we are sure that, above and beyond all such measures, we need prayer - intense, humble and trusting prayer - if the world is finally to become a place of true and permanent peace.

    This Day is, therefore, a day for prayer and for what goes together with prayer: silence, pilgrimage and fasting. By abstaining from food we shall become more conscious of the universal need for penance and inner transformation.

    4. Religions are many and varied, and they reflect the desire of men and women down through the ages to enter into a relationship with the Absolute Being.

    Prayer entails conversion of heart on our part. It means deepening our sense of the ultimate Reality. This is the very reason for our coming together in this place.

    We shall go from here to our separate places of prayer. Each religion will have the time and opportunity to express itself in its own traditional rite. Then from these separate places of prayer, we will walk in silence towards the lower Square of Saint Francis. Once gathered in the Square, again each religion will be able to present its own prayer, one after the other.

    Having thus prayed separately, we shall meditate in silence on our own responsibility to work for peace. We shall then declare symbolically our commitment to peace. At the end of the Day, I shall try to express what this unique celebration will have said to my heart, as a believer in Jesus Christ and the first servant of the Catholic Church.

    5. I wish to express again my gratitude to you for having come to Assisi to pray. I also thank all the individuals and religious communities who have associated themselves with our prayers.

    I have chosen this town of Assisi as the place for our Day of Prayer for Peace because of the particular significance of the holy man venerated here - Saint Francis - known and revered by so many throughout the world as a symbol of peace reconciliation and brotherhood. Inspired by his example, his meekness and humility let us dispose our hearts for prayer in true internal silence.

    Let us make this Day an anticipation of a peaceful world.

    May peace come down upon us and fill our hearts!



    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    JPII Opening Address at Assisi I
    « Reply #1 on: April 19, 2011, 08:41:54 PM »
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  • What are you trying to prove, stevus? That Assissi was only a meeting where everyone prayed for world peace and that there was no blasphemy at the meeting? Both Assissi I and II were disasters. Even if JPII did not intend for the meetings to be blasphemous, blasphemy resulted from both meetings.

    I see you highlighted where he mentioned Jesus. Ok, let's use this example again. If a person robs a bank, does his action suddenly become good because he mentions Jesus on his way out? Come on stevus, that's just absurd. Another big problem is the people who were invited. Why couldn't he just have all the Catholics pray for world peace? But no, he wanted to kiss up to all the other religions. Also note that there were no Traditionalists invited (not that any Traditional Catholic would in their right mind attend anyway).

    And you said a while back that he "preached" of Jesus. Um, no. He mentioned Him, but to preach of Him he would have had to go up there and say something like "We should all worship Jesus". And need I even bring up how at Assissi II JPII covered all the Crosses and didn't offer Mass on Sunday "so as not to offend anyone"? JPII was a coward who was more afraid of offending these people than offending God. This thread only proves that.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.


    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    JPII Opening Address at Assisi I
    « Reply #2 on: April 19, 2011, 09:11:29 PM »
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  • The "separate places of prayer" were on Catholic turf, courtesy of The Deuce.

    From Mortalium animos (note the bold, stevie):

    "A similar object is aimed at by some, in those matters which concern the New Law promulgated by Christ our Lord. For since they hold it for certain that men destitute of all religious sense are very rarely to be found, they seem to have founded on that belief a hope that the nations, although they differ among themselves in certain religious matters, will without much difficulty come to agree as brethren in professing certain doctrines, which form as it were a common basis of the spiritual life. For which reason conventions, meetings and addresses are frequently arranged by these persons, at which a large number of listeners are present, and at which all without distinction are invited to join in the discussion, both infidels of every kind, and Christians, even those who have unhappily fallen away from Christ or who with obstinacy and pertinacity deny His divine nature and mission. Certainly such attempts can nowise be approved by Catholics, founded as they are on that false opinion which considers all religions to be more or less good and praiseworthy, since they all in different ways manifest and signify that sense which is inborn in us all, and by which we are led to God and to the obedient acknowledgment of His rule. Not only are those who hold this opinion in error and deceived, but also in distorting the idea of true religion they reject it, and little by little. turn aside to naturalism and atheism, as it is called; from which it clearly follows that one who supports those who hold these theories and attempt to realize them, is altogether abandoning the divinely revealed religion."
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline stevusmagnus

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    JPII Opening Address at Assisi I
    « Reply #3 on: April 19, 2011, 10:29:00 PM »
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  • Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
    What are you trying to prove, stevus? That Assissi was only a meeting where everyone prayed for world peace and that there was no blasphemy at the meeting? Both Assissi I and II were disasters. Even if JPII did not intend for the meetings to be blasphemous, blasphemy resulted from both meetings.


    What blasphemy?

    Quote
    I see you highlighted where he mentioned Jesus. Ok, let's use this example again. If a person robs a bank, does his action suddenly become good because he mentions Jesus on his way out? Come on stevus, that's just absurd.


    He doesn't just "mention Jesus". He says he is "a believer in Jesus Christ and first servant of the Catholic Church."

    Quote
    Another big problem is the people who were invited. Why couldn't he just have all the Catholics pray for world peace? But no, he wanted to kiss up to all the other religions. Also note that there were no Traditionalists invited (not that any Traditional Catholic would in their right mind attend anyway).


    Traditional Catholics are Catholics. Catholics were invited. Inviting leaders of other religions doesn't mean he was "kissing up" to them. He wanted to invite them to pray for peace as he says.

    Quote
    And you said a while back that he "preached" of Jesus. Um, no. He mentioned Him, but to preach of Him he would have had to go up there and say something like "We should all worship Jesus".


    He preaches about Jesus in the closing speech I posted.

    Quote
    And need I even bring up how at Assissi II JPII covered all the Crosses and didn't offer Mass on Sunday "so as not to offend anyone"?


    Where is your evidence for this?

    Quote
    JPII was a coward who was more afraid of offending these people than offending God. This thread only proves that.


    I think this is a rashly judgmental statement with little evidence to back it up. Your are presuming to judge the late Pope's heart.

    Offline stevusmagnus

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    JPII Opening Address at Assisi I
    « Reply #4 on: April 19, 2011, 10:33:11 PM »
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  • Quote from: gladius_veritatis
    "A similar object is aimed at by some, in those matters which concern the New Law promulgated by Christ our Lord. For since they hold it for certain that men destitute of all religious sense are very rarely to be found, they seem to have founded on that belief a hope that the nations, although they differ among themselves in certain religious matters, will without much difficulty come to agree as brethren in professing certain doctrines, which form as it were a common basis of the spiritual life. For which reason conventions, meetings and addresses are frequently arranged by these persons, at which a large number of listeners are present, and at which all without distinction are invited to join in the discussion, both infidels of every kind, and Christians, even those who have unhappily fallen away from Christ or who with obstinacy and pertinacity deny His divine nature and mission. Certainly such attempts can nowise be approved by Catholics, founded as they are on that false opinion which considers all religions to be more or less good and praiseworthy, since they all in different ways manifest and signify that sense which is inborn in us all, and by which we are led to God and to the obedient acknowledgment of His rule. Not only are those who hold this opinion in error and deceived, but also in distorting the idea of true religion they reject it, and little by little. turn aside to naturalism and atheism, as it is called; from which it clearly follows that one who supports those who hold these theories and attempt to realize them, is altogether abandoning the divinely revealed religion."


    This quote has absolutely nothing to do with Assisi.

    Please re-read paragraph 2 of JPII's opening address.

    Quote from: Pope John Paul II
    The fact that we have come here does not imply any intention of seeking a religious consensus among ourselves or of negotiating our faith convictions. Neither does it mean that religions can be reconciled at the level of a common commitment in an earthly project which would surpass them all. Nor is it a concession to relativism in religious beliefs, because every human being must sincerely follow his or her upright conscience with the intention of seeking and obeying the truth.


    Offline stevusmagnus

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    JPII Opening Address at Assisi I
    « Reply #5 on: April 19, 2011, 10:33:43 PM »
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  • SS, what do you think of paragraph 2?

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    JPII Opening Address at Assisi I
    « Reply #6 on: April 19, 2011, 10:35:37 PM »
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  • Quote from: stevusmagnus
    You are presuming to judge the late Pope's heart.


     :cry:

    So, you think The Deuce was courageous?  Is that how his 26-year pontificate produced such wonderful results?
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline stevusmagnus

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    « Reply #7 on: April 19, 2011, 10:37:06 PM »
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  • Quote from: gladius_veritatis
    Quote from: stevusmagnus
    You are presuming to judge the late Pope's heart.


     :cry:

    So, you think The Deuce was courageous?  Is that how his 26-year pontificate produced such wonderful results?


    Still waiting for your response to paragraph 2.

    I do think he was courageous in many respects. He fearlessly denounced the evils of abortion, euthanasia, and artificial contraception in a hostile world which believed and still believes these ideas are madness.

    He publicly berated a South American priest who was intimately involved in liberation theology politics. He apologized to all Catholics for the scandalous abuses which occurred in the post-conciliar period.

    He also declared once and for all that women cannot be ordained priests to the ire of the world, feminist movement, and Christian sects which allow the practice. Very unecuмenical!

    He also personally visited and forgave the man who shot him. I think that took a great amount of courage and humility.


    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    « Reply #8 on: April 19, 2011, 10:40:39 PM »
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  • Quote from: gladius_veritatis
    The "separate places of prayer" were on Catholic turf, courtesy of The Deuce.


    stevie, it seems that you fail to read Modernists as Modernists -- i.e., they will say one thing that is perfectly Catholic, but follow it up with things that are rationalist, etc.  The Catholic statements do not save the day.  Do you grasp this?
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    « Reply #9 on: April 19, 2011, 10:41:53 PM »
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  • Quote from: stevusmagnus
    Still waiting for your response to paragraph 2.


    I just read your comment, stevie.  Since you are being an impertinent douche bag, you can wait until tomorrow.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline stevusmagnus

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    « Reply #10 on: April 19, 2011, 10:43:46 PM »
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  • Quote from: gladius_veritatis
    stevie, it seems that you fail to read Modernists as Modernists -- i.e., they will say one thing that is perfectly Catholic, but follow it up with things that are rationalist, etc.  The Catholic statements do not save the day.  Do you grasp this?


    So you agree paragraph 2, stated by JPII, is perfectly Catholic and not in conflict with MA?

    Because in paragraph 2 he states very clearly what they are there for and what they are NOT there for. They are not there for the reasons spelled out in MA.


    Offline stevusmagnus

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    « Reply #11 on: April 19, 2011, 10:44:42 PM »
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  • Quote from: gladius_veritatis
    Quote from: stevusmagnus
    Still waiting for your response to paragraph 2.


    I just read your comment, stevie.  Since you are being an impertinent douche bag, you can wait until tomorrow.


    I added to it. Please re-read!  :smile:

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    « Reply #12 on: April 19, 2011, 10:45:46 PM »
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  • I noticed.  See ya on the morrow :)

    Did you notice that my response which you quoted when hounding me was to a post that came BEFORE your post asking about paragraph 2?  You got on my case before I COULD have read your other comment...CALM DOWN...
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline stevusmagnus

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    « Reply #13 on: April 19, 2011, 10:53:13 PM »
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  • Quote from: gladius_veritatis
    I noticed.  See ya on the morrow :)

    Did you notice that my response which you quoted when hounding me was to a post that came BEFORE your post asking about paragraph 2?  You got on my case before I COULD have read your other comment...CALM DOWN...


    Sorry, I aplogize.  :cheers:

    Offline Caminus

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    « Reply #14 on: April 19, 2011, 11:39:35 PM »
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