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Author Topic: JP2 Quote  (Read 1137 times)

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Offline Disputaciones

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JP2 Quote
« on: August 24, 2014, 08:22:06 PM »
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  • In "No Crisis in the Church?" by Simon Galloway, pg. 97 we read this:

    Quote
    "All religions are more or less good and praiseworthy, in as much as all give expression, under various forms, to that innate sense which leads men to God." (Pope John Paul II at World Day of Prayer, Assisi, 1986 quoted in Gerry Matatics, Something Rotten in Rome, audio tape, 90 minutes, 1995)


    Has anyone verified this?


    Online Nadir

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    JP2 Quote
    « Reply #1 on: August 24, 2014, 10:20:12 PM »
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  • How many speeches did he give at Assisi in 86?

    This speech does not contain those words. http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/1986/october/docuмents/hf_jp-ii_spe_19861027_prayer-peace-assisi-final_en.html

    Willing Shepherds website also quote it using Gerry Matatics as the source.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.


    Offline BTNYC

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    JP2 Quote
    « Reply #2 on: August 24, 2014, 11:04:26 PM »
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  • Quote from: Pope St. Pius X

    14. Thus far, Venerable Brethren, We have considered the Modernist as a philosopher. Now if We proceed to consider him as a believer, and seek to know how the believer, according to Modernism, is marked off from the philosopher, it must be observed that, although the philosopher recognizes the reality of the divine as the object of faith, still this reality is not to be found by him but in the heart of the believer, as an object of feeling and affirmation, and therefore confined within the sphere of phenomena; but the question as to whether in itself it exists outside that feeling and affirmation is one which the philosopher passes over and neglects. For the Modernist believer, on the contrary, it is an established and certain fact that the reality of the divine does really exist in itself and quite independently of the person who believes in it. If you ask on what foundation this assertion of the believer rests, he answers: In the personal experience of the individual. On this head the Modernists differ from the Rationalists only to fall into the views of the Protestants and pseudo-mystics. The following is their manner of stating the question: In the religious sense one must recognize a kind of intuition of the heart which puts man in immediate contact with the reality of God, and infuses such a persuasion of God's existence and His action both within and without man as far to exceed any scientific conviction. They assert, therefore, the existence of a real experience, and one of a kind that surpasses all rational experience. If this experience is denied by some, like the Rationalists, they say that this arises from the fact that such persons are unwilling to put themselves in the moral state necessary to produce it. It is this experience which makes the person who acquires it to be properly and truly a believer.

    How far this position is removed from that of Catholic teaching! We have already seen how its fallacies have been condemned by the Vatican Council. Later on, we shall see how these errors, combined with those which we have already mentioned, open wide the way to Atheism. Here it is well to note at once that, given this doctrine of experience united with that of symbolism, every religion, even that of paganism, must be held to be true. What is to prevent such experiences from being found in any religion? In fact, that they are so is maintained by not a few. On what grounds can Modernists deny the truth of an experience affirmed by a follower of Islam? Will they claim a monopoly of true experiences for Catholics alone? Indeed, Modernists do not deny, but actually maintain, some confusedly, others frankly, that all religions are true. That they cannot feel otherwise is obvious. For on what ground, according to their theories, could falsity be predicated of any religion whatsoever? Certainly it would be either on account of the falsity of the religious .sense or on account of the falsity of the formula pronounced by the mind. Now the religious sense, although it maybe more perfect or less perfect, is always one and the same; and the intellectual formula, in order to be true, has but to respond to the religious sense and to the believer, whatever be the intellectual capacity of the latter. In the conflict between different religions, the most that Modernists can maintain is that the Catholic has more truth because it is more vivid, and that it deserves with more reason the name of Christian because it corresponds more fully with the origins of Christianity. No one will find it unreasonable that these consequences flow from the premises. But what is most amazing is that there are Catholics and priests, who, We would fain believe, abhor such enormities, and yet act as if they fully approved of them. For they lavish such praise and bestow such public honor on the teachers of these errors as to convey the belief that their admiration is not meant merely for the persons, who are perhaps not devoid of a certain merit, but rather for the sake of the errors which these persons openly profess and which they do all in their power to propagate.
    Pascendi Dominici Gregis

    Offline Disputaciones

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    JP2 Quote
    « Reply #3 on: August 24, 2014, 11:39:37 PM »
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  • Quote from: Nadir
    How many speeches did he give at Assisi in 86?

    This speech does not contain those words. http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/1986/october/docuмents/hf_jp-ii_spe_19861027_prayer-peace-assisi-final_en.html

    Willing Shepherds website also quote it using Gerry Matatics as the source.


    I suppose the only thing that can be done is to contact Gerry.

    Offline Cantarella

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    JP2 Quote
    « Reply #4 on: August 25, 2014, 01:21:37 AM »
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  • The heresy of Indifferentism which is born out of the denial of the absolute exclusivity of the Catholic Church for salvation (Invincible Ignorance, Implicit Desire), is the heresy our times and has plagued the Church for many decades now.

    The belief that it does not matter what religion a man professes, he can be saved nonetheless, has infiltrated the whole world, Catholics included. The Church has always condemned this malicious heresy because it is a clear denial of EENS.

    Here we find an example of such condemnation. The last great monk-pope, Gregory XVI, says:

    Quote from: Gregory XVI

     "Now we consider another abundant source of the evils with which the Church is afflicted at present: indifferentism. This perverse opinion is spread on all sides by the fraud of the wicked who claim that it is possible to obtain the eternal salvation of the soul by the profession of any kind of religion, as long as morality is maintained.

     Surely, in so clear a matter, you will drive this deadly error far from the people committed to your care. With the admonition of the apostle that “there is one God, one faith, one baptism” [Eph 4.5] may those fear who contrive the notion that the safe harbor of salvation is open to persons of any religion whatever.

     They should consider the testimony of Christ Himself that “those who are not with Christ are against Him,” [Lk 11.23] and that they disperse unhappily who do not gather with Him. Therefore “without a doubt, they will perish forever, unless they hold the Catholic faith whole and inviolate.” [Athanasian Creed] Let them hear Jerome who, while the Church was torn into three parts by schism, tells us that whenever someone tried to persuade him to join his group he always exclaimed: “He who is for the See of Peter is for me.” [St. Jerome, epistle 57] A schismatic flatters himself falsely if he asserts that he, too, has been washed in the waters of regeneration. Indeed Augustine would reply to such a man: “The branch has the same form when it has been cut off from the vine; but of what profit for it is the form, if it does not live from the root?”[St. Augustine, in psalm. contra part. Donat.]


    So this great pope spoke in the year of Our Lord, 1832, way before JPII. Nothing is new under the sun.... Truth is just an epic confrontation between Good and Evil, between Darkness and Light.

    Quote from: Pope Pius IX

    Qui Pluribus (# 15), Nov. 9, 1846: "Also perverse is that shocking theory that it makes no difference to which religion one belongs, a theory greatly at variance even with reason. By means of this theory, those crafty men remove all distinction between virtue and vice, truth and error, honorable and vile action. They pretend that men can gain eternal salvation by the practice of any religion, as if there could ever be any sharing between justice and iniquity, any collaboration between light and darkness, or any agreement between Christ and Belial."
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.


    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    JP2 Quote
    « Reply #5 on: August 25, 2014, 11:48:01 AM »
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  • The OP should contact Gerry Matatics on this one.

    I'm not saying JPII didn't say such a thing.  

    And let's remember that the Vatican scrubs their website constantly to remove obviously blasphemous rhetoric - remember that the interview Pope Francis gave to the atheist where he said there was no Catholic god (his words, not mine)?  Well, that has been removed and is now a distant memory.  In fact, curious novus ordites in 20 years from now will be told the whole thing was an "urban legend".  

    So, let's try tracking this one down.  It will be like cathing a greased pig, only harder.

    Offline Disputaciones

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    JP2 Quote
    « Reply #6 on: August 25, 2014, 02:01:06 PM »
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  • Quote from: Capt McQuigg
    The OP should contact Gerry Matatics on this one.


    The impression I got from reading about him was that he doesn't really answer emails unless you know him or unless he needs to receive emails.

    Someone who actually knows him and can call him would be best.

    I don't know him at all.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    JP2 Quote
    « Reply #7 on: August 25, 2014, 03:07:14 PM »
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  • I tried to look around the internet and could not find this as an actual quote of JPII.  What I did find were accusations of JPII's Assisi as encouraging the portion of Mortalium Animos that speaks against thinking "all religions are more or less good and praiseworthy".

    Personally, I doubt he actually said the exact quote in the OP.  Modernists are smarter than that.
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)