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Author Topic: John XXIII a True Pope?  (Read 5134 times)

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Offline Quid Retribuam Domino

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Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
« Reply #105 on: September 22, 2018, 04:13:57 PM »
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    • Wasn't John XXIII proven to be a freemason?

    Freemasons are ipso facto excommunicated from the Church.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #106 on: September 22, 2018, 04:46:14 PM »
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    • Quote from: Quid Retribuam Domino on September 22, 2018, 04:13:57 PM
    Wasn't John XXIII proven to be a freemason?

    Freemasons are ipso facto excommunicated from the Church.

    Proven, no.  But some Masonic Grand Master (or some such) claimed that Roncalli had been initiated into a Masonic lodge in Paris.  I believed his allegation to be credible, but it's far from proof.

    Pius XII allowed excommunicates to legitimately vote in a Conclave ... and presumably to be elected also.
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    Offline forlorn

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #107 on: September 22, 2018, 04:59:16 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on September 22, 2018, 04:46:14 PM
    Proven, no.  But some Masonic Grand Master (or some such) claimed that Roncalli had been initiated into a Masonic lodge in Paris.  I believed his allegation to be credible, but it's far from proof.

    Pius XII allowed excommunicates to legitimately vote in a Conclave ... and presumably to be elected also.
    How could an excommunicated person possibly validly vote or be elected? It's a requirement for both to be a Catholic. 
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    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #108 on: September 22, 2018, 06:08:30 PM »
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    • Quote from: forlorn on September 22, 2018, 04:59:16 PM
    How could an excommunicated person possibly validly vote or be elected? It's a requirement for both to be a Catholic.
    I have often wondered why God would allow Vatican II to even take place; perhaps this is the reason why!
    Sounds like the pope was tempting God.  There is that saying, one gets what they ask for.

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    Offline forlorn

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #109 on: September 22, 2018, 06:22:51 PM »
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    • Quote from: MyrnaM on September 22, 2018, 06:08:30 PM
    I have often wondered why God would allow Vatican II to even take place; perhaps this is the reason why!
    Sounds like the pope was tempting God.  There is that saying, one gets what they ask for.
    We're probably in the midst of the End Times Great Apostasy to be honest.
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    Offline roscoe

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #110 on: September 22, 2018, 07:58:10 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on September 22, 2018, 07:50:16 AM
    Nonsense.  There's credible circuмstantial evidence.  No smoking gun, but much more than mere speculation and gossip.
    Bp Williamson himself is on record as saying that it is quite possible( could be a paraphrase of his words) that Card Siri was elected in 1958 & maybe even in 1963. Bp Williamson for Il Papa!! :cheers:

    Does anyone know why the post prev to Lad( that he replied to) by pooche is not shown?  It worked that way on the old software?? :confused:
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #111 on: September 23, 2018, 11:21:41 AM »
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    • Quote from: forlorn on September 22, 2018, 04:59:16 PM
    How could an excommunicated person possibly validly vote or be elected? It's a requirement for both to be a Catholic.
    "No Cardinal can in any way be excluded from the active and passive election of the Supreme Pontiff on the pretext or by reason of any excommunication, suspension, interdict, or other ecclesiastical impediment whatsoever; We, in fact, suspend these censures only for the effect of an election of this sort; they will remain in their own force in other circuмstances....
    ...After this agreement has been furnished within a time limit to be determined by the prudent judgment of the Cardinals by a majority of votes (to the extent it is necessary), the man elected is instantly the true Pope, and he acquires and can exercise full and absolute jurisdiction over the whole world." - Pope St. Pius X, Vacantis Apostolicae Sedis
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    Offline older salt

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #112 on: September 23, 2018, 12:17:40 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on September 22, 2018, 07:50:16 AM
    Nonsense.  There's credible circuмstantial evidence.  No smoking gun, but much more than mere speculation and gossip.
    so we do not know.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #113 on: September 23, 2018, 01:43:33 PM »
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    • I believe that the Masons knew the only way to circuмvent the Holy Spirit's protection of the papal Magisterium was to install an illegitimately-elected Pope.  They knew that any Pope legitimately elected would be struck dead by God before he could teach error to the Universal Church.  That's why they let Siri get elected in the first place.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #114 on: September 23, 2018, 01:47:25 PM »
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    • Quote from: older salt on September 23, 2018, 12:17:40 PM
    so we do not know.

    Oh, we know.  We just can't prove it.
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    Offline Quid Retribuam Domino

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #115 on: September 23, 2018, 04:12:38 PM »
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    From the woman came the beginning of sin, and by her we all die. ~ Ecclesiasticus 25:33

    International Women's Day is a day we all celebrate Eve's rebellion at the Tree and our plummet into sin.

    Offline older salt

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #116 on: October 20, 2018, 10:36:54 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on September 23, 2018, 01:47:25 PM
    Oh, we know.  We just can't prove it.
    therefore we do not know for sure.
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    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #117 on: October 20, 2018, 12:32:35 PM »
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    • Unless you agree with several theologians such as Blessed Bellarmine, S.J., who says: 'A doubtful Pope must be considered as not Pope!
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