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Author Topic: John XXIII a True Pope?  (Read 2698 times)

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Offline Stubborn

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Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
« Reply #90 on: September 19, 2018, 11:31:05 AM »
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  • Stubborn unless I am misunderstanding you, your note gives the impression that scandal is a good thing!
    You are misunderstanding me.

    Our Lord Himself is the One who said that scandals are a necessary thing when He said: "it must needs be that scandals come".



    Quote
    Even without a Pope, the Deposit of Faith passed down generations UNCHANGED as is the Will of God.  It is never the Will of God that His Church leads anyone down the path to destruction, even His enemies.

    Certainly it is never God's will that His Church leads anyone down the path to destruction, even His enemies. That is why His Church never does any such thing. Rather, His Church on earth, the Church He founded, the Catholic Church, leads all souls, including His enemies to heaven, provided they are and remain faithful to Him and don't fall for scandals. 
    I say that it is licit to resist the Roman Pontiff by not doing what he orders and by impeding the execution of his will; it is not licit, however, to judge, punish or depose him, since these are acts proper to a superior." St. Robert Bellarmine

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #91 on: September 19, 2018, 12:14:07 PM »
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  • Here is a good link that will help both of us.  

    http://www.radioreplies.info/radio-replies-vol-2.php?t=99


    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #92 on: September 19, 2018, 12:27:56 PM »
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  • From the Haydock:

    We must not suppose for a moment that Christ subjects human actions to the control of rigid fatality. It is not the prescience or prediction of Christ, which causes these evils to take place; they do not happen because Christ foretold them; but, Christ foretold them, because they would infallibly happen.

    The Almighty permits scandals, because the good are benefited by them, making them more diligent and more watchful: witness the great virtue of Job, of Joseph, and many others perfected in temptation. If the less virtuous receive any detriment from scandals, they owe it to their own sloth and laziness.

    I say that it is licit to resist the Roman Pontiff by not doing what he orders and by impeding the execution of his will; it is not licit, however, to judge, punish or depose him, since these are acts proper to a superior." St. Robert Bellarmine

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #93 on: September 19, 2018, 12:41:03 PM »
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  • Haydock makes good sense.

    Do you have a Haydock Bible, it used to be online but now I can't find it anymore.  

    I love the Haydock Bible.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #94 on: September 19, 2018, 01:25:16 PM »
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  • Let's also remember that God will not permit us to be tempted beyond our strength.  This also applies to scandals and to heretics, even those in Rome.


    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #95 on: September 19, 2018, 02:10:09 PM »
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  • Haydock makes good sense.

    Do you have a Haydock Bible, it used to be online but now I can't find it anymore.  

    I love the Haydock Bible.
    Yes, I have a big Haydock from the 1800s I believe. When we first got it some 40 years ago, it was a mess, a lot of the pages were falling out and tattered ends etc., so my mom took it to a guy who fixes things like that. It took him about 4 months to fix it and after he fixed it, he wanted to buy it he loved it so much lol. The outside cover is original and isn't too bad, but all the pages are real clean. I don't take very good pictures but I posted a few of my Haydock below.

    Other than that, I use this link for the online version. Wish I knew what it would take to put this website back up and keep it there, it may be worth paying something to insure it never goes down the way it did. 
    https://web.archive.org/web/20160422023253/http://haydock1859.tripod.com/
    I say that it is licit to resist the Roman Pontiff by not doing what he orders and by impeding the execution of his will; it is not licit, however, to judge, punish or depose him, since these are acts proper to a superior." St. Robert Bellarmine

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #96 on: September 19, 2018, 02:34:05 PM »
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  • Stubborn what a treasure!  Thank you for taking the time to show us at least the pictures.  Love the picture of Our Mary holding Jesus when He was taken down from the Cross, that was one of her sorrows.  One day a few weeks ago while thinking of that particular image of her holding Him, and wondering why it was such a sorrow since it was finished.  The thought came to me, that she saw again, all the sufferings, the piercings, nails, torn flesh, and wounded shoulder, dried blood, and thorns relieving all over again.

    I clicked on the image and it gets larger, one can see more details.  

    Thanks for the link, I will use it over and over.


    Offline poche

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #97 on: September 19, 2018, 10:49:55 PM »
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  • Explain what makes you think the gates of Hell have prevailed.   Are you saying the Papacy is dead?

    Do you believe that everytime the True Popes passes away, the Church dies for a time?

    You really believe that Jesus the Head of His Church in heaven has been defeated because His Vicar is absent during an interregnum when God is not even concerned with "Time"; you are comforted with the fact He has conquered defeat, the gates of Hell have not prevailed because God is satisfied with not one but several Modernists, Heretics, perhaps Atheists sitting in HIS PLACE.  All is well in Eternity!
     
    The Mission of the Church today is not the salvation of souls, but drag them to Hell.  And the devil dances with your drums.  
    If you are saying that there have been no valid Popes for the past 60 years and the see is vacant then you are not dealing with reality because even the atheists and non Catholics recognize the validity of Pope Francis' election even though they don't agree with him. Just because you don't like what he says and does doesn't mean that the see of Rome is vacant.  


    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #98 on: September 20, 2018, 08:32:12 AM »
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  • If you are saying that there have been no valid Popes for the past 60 years and the see is vacant then you are not dealing with reality because even the atheists and non Catholics recognize the validity of Pope Francis' election even though they don't agree with him. Just because you don't like what he says and does doesn't mean that the see of Rome is vacant.  
    Are you serious!  That is your explanation!  You will forever be in my prayers, poche.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #99 on: September 20, 2018, 03:31:00 PM »
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  • If you are saying that there have been no valid Popes for the past 60 years and the see is vacant then you are not dealing with reality because even the atheists and non Catholics recognize the validity of Pope Francis' election even though they don't agree with him. Just because you don't like what he says and does doesn't mean that the see of Rome is vacant.  
    :facepalm:
    If any one saith, that the ceremonies, vestments, and outward signs, which the Catholic Church makes use of in the celebration of masses, are incentives to impiety, rather than offices of piety; let him be anathema. - Council of Trent

    Offline Quid Retribuam Domino

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #100 on: September 20, 2018, 03:36:32 PM »
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  • If you are saying that there have been no valid Popes for the past 60 years and the see is vacant then you are not dealing with reality because even the atheists and non Catholics recognize the validity of Pope Francis' election even though they don't agree with him. Just because you don't like what he says and does doesn't mean that the see of Rome is vacant. 

    Absolutely zero logic in this argument.
    From the woman came the beginning of sin, and by her we all die. ~ Ecclesiasticus 25:33

    International Women's Day is a day we all celebrate Eve's rebellion at the Tree and our plummet into sin.


    Offline older salt

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #101 on: September 21, 2018, 09:56:14 PM »
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  • I think that Siri was elected and that Roncalli was uncanonically (illegitimately) installed in his place.
    Do we know for a fact Cardinal Siri was elected Pope?

    Offline poche

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #102 on: September 22, 2018, 12:25:47 AM »
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  • Do we know for a fact Cardinal Siri was elected Pope?
    That is pure speculation and gossip.

    Offline roscoe

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #103 on: September 22, 2018, 02:56:40 AM »
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  • MO is that the white smoke is legal & Card Siri was elected as Pope Greg XVII... :cheers:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #104 on: September 22, 2018, 07:50:16 AM »
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  • That is pure speculation and gossip.

    Nonsense.  There's credible circumstantial evidence.  No smoking gun, but much more than mere speculation and gossip.

     

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