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Author Topic: John XXIII a True Pope?  (Read 2311 times)

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Offline roscoe

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Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
« Reply #45 on: September 14, 2018, 12:40:43 AM »
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  • edit
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline roscoe

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #46 on: September 14, 2018, 12:42:14 AM »
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  • They were looking at the same 'white smoke' that everybody was looking at.
    maybe or maybe not... :cheers:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #47 on: September 14, 2018, 07:55:31 AM »
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  • That doesn't make sense. Why and and who would be trying to force the very man that they had just elected be trying to force him to resign just minutes after they had just elected him?

    Because after the election by the broader group, certain bad actors within the Conclave relayed threats against Vatican city and/or faithful behind the Iron curtain.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #48 on: September 14, 2018, 07:56:43 AM »
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  • The magisterium of whoever is protected by the Holy Spirit.

    The Magisterium of the POPE (and the Church united with him) is protected by the Holy Spirit.  But that's precisely the question here, whether these V2 imposters were actually popes or infiltrators who usurped the See illegitimately.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #49 on: September 14, 2018, 07:58:20 AM »
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  • They were looking at the same 'white smoke' that everybody was looking at.

    No, the official announcers were often relayed messages from within the conclave.  We're not talking here about reporters for CBS from the United States.


    Offline poche

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #50 on: September 14, 2018, 11:26:13 PM »
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  • Because after the election by the broader group, certain bad actors within the Conclave relayed threats against Vatican city and/or faithful behind the Iron curtain.
    This is why much courage is required to be Pope. If he couldn't deal with the problems within a relatively small group in hte conclave then maybe he wouldn't be able to deal with the problems on a worldwide scale. If he didn't feel up to teh situation tehn maybe it would have been best for him to decline the papacy. 

    Offline poche

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #51 on: September 14, 2018, 11:38:09 PM »
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  • The Magisterium of the POPE (and the Church united with him) is protected by the Holy Spirit.  But that's precisely the question here, whether these V2 imposters were actually popes or infiltrators who usurped the See illegitimately.
    Each time there was a vacancy in the papacy, there was a conclave. At some point white smoke came out of the chimney. Then the dean of cardinals came to the window and said, "Habemus papam..." Even people who generally don't like the Catholic Church recognize that that person was the Pope. 

    Offline poche

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #52 on: September 14, 2018, 11:39:08 PM »
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  • No, the official announcers were often relayed messages from within the conclave.  We're not talking here about reporters for CBS from the United States.
    Obviously they didn't know what they were talking about. 


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #53 on: September 15, 2018, 12:25:36 AM »
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  • Poche, there is no white smoke unless someone is 1) elected and 2) accepts.  In 1958, someone was elected, accepted, then resigned.  That’s why the white smoke changed to black.  Thousands of people who saw the white smoke, including many journalists, aren’t crazy.  It was reported all over the world in newspapers.  

    Offline roscoe

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #54 on: September 15, 2018, 12:26:34 AM »
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  • Obviously they didn't know what they were talking about.
    It is not obvious to moi... :cheers:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline poche

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #55 on: September 15, 2018, 10:36:56 PM »
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  • Poche, there is no white smoke unless someone is 1) elected and 2) accepts.  In 1958, someone was elected, accepted, then resigned.  That’s why the white smoke changed to black.  Thousands of people who saw the white smoke, including many journalists, aren’t crazy.  It was reported all over the world in newspapers.  
    Or could it be that someone was elected and in the excitement someone threw in the wrong straw before the elected one had a chance to answer? 


    Offline roscoe

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #56 on: September 15, 2018, 10:50:04 PM »
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  • LOL :cowboy:

    I renew my motion to restore the Roll Laugh, Double Roll Laugh & Mary Juanita Emoticons......
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #57 on: September 15, 2018, 11:08:54 PM »
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  • Quote
    Or could it be that someone was elected and in the excitement someone threw in the wrong straw before the elected one had a chance to answer? 
    Is it possible for a you to go to a 5 Star restaurant, sit down at a table, ask them what’s the special and the chef gets really excited, comes out of the kitchen and hands you a free steak dinner behind the manager’s back?  I mean, I guess it’s possible, but it’s HIGHLY, EXTREMELY unlikely.    

    The complexity of the papal election is high, the number of people involved is many and the amount of pressure to follow the centuries old protocol is extreme. The processes in place are meant to avoid accidents, especially by a single person.  A white smoke accident would have to involve multiple people, but having more than one person would cease to be accidental and then be a collaborative/collusionary act. 

    Offline poche

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #58 on: September 16, 2018, 10:45:18 PM »
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  • Is it possible for a you to go to a 5 Star restaurant, sit down at a table, ask them what’s the special and the chef gets really excited, comes out of the kitchen and hands you a free steak dinner behind the manager’s back?  I mean, I guess it’s possible, but it’s HIGHLY, EXTREMELY unlikely.    

    The complexity of the papal election is high, the number of people involved is many and the amount of pressure to follow the centuries old protocol is extreme. The processes in place are meant to avoid accidents, especially by a single person.  A white smoke accident would have to involve multiple people, but having more than one person would cease to be accidental and then be a collaborative/collusionary act.
    Yes, but we are talking about Italy, which is known for excitement, inefficiency, and accidents. A reporter asked Pope Benedict about Italian inefficiency and wouldn't it be better to be better organized just like the Germans. 

    Offline roscoe

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    Re: John XXIII a True Pope?
    « Reply #59 on: September 17, 2018, 01:49:56 AM »
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  • I would advise reading Sr Pascalina's( German Nun who was 'La Popessa' ) bio wherein she laments Pius XII decision to internationalise the College of Cards at the expense of dominant Italian faction. This is not addressed by Mrs Martinez...  :cheers:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

     

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