Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: 2Vermont on May 06, 2024, 12:58:48 PM
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:laugh1::facepalm:
Here is NOW's response to John Salza:
content.libsyn.com/p/e/4/0/e40a30dacdb8958b/express191.mp3?c_id=171614333&cs_id=171614333&response-content-type=audio%2Fmpeg&Expires=1715018719&Signature=W2jmVKTbU1X7PXvHopMkABCcunIt8n-R7~oSmqw5FC-KVLu8jt9Rkcw~SJysTTl-X6fwgDTPOrCnV5~zfFpQy3YnsnP3wJSxMZ9~ABfrTSvUoK2NXtYV7NcKavS6mge~LFJMWbZP~Yg4qVvmMI5rS0UcHopzCqxhzEhmKZ-Ui-2DaVFG2aR83h--i4z8NHMXk5ScAPNj2R1AB4XgwFg9r-TNqp38nopIW04GdF0Kp1BcNopDspAsCGmyVYJsAlDLYeYUrVENN3loJdJ1eTLlqM5mTCym4IE9X6aUPXWc2bFfCVdOo48IUyXRvV9BNq1ilxpCIU2qBTLGT94lzQHJYA__&Key-Pair-Id=K1YS7LZGUP96OI (https://content.libsyn.com/p/e/4/0/e40a30dacdb8958b/express191.mp3?c_id=171614333&cs_id=171614333&response-content-type=audio%2Fmpeg&Expires=1715018719&Signature=W2jmVKTbU1X7PXvHopMkABCcunIt8n-R7~oSmqw5FC-KVLu8jt9Rkcw~SJysTTl-X6fwgDTPOrCnV5~zfFpQy3YnsnP3wJSxMZ9~ABfrTSvUoK2NXtYV7NcKavS6mge~LFJMWbZP~Yg4qVvmMI5rS0UcHopzCqxhzEhmKZ-Ui-2DaVFG2aR83h--i4z8NHMXk5ScAPNj2R1AB4XgwFg9r-TNqp38nopIW04GdF0Kp1BcNopDspAsCGmyVYJsAlDLYeYUrVENN3loJdJ1eTLlqM5mTCym4IE9X6aUPXWc2bFfCVdOo48IUyXRvV9BNq1ilxpCIU2qBTLGT94lzQHJYA__&Key-Pair-Id=K1YS7LZGUP96OI)
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I heard this on Tradcast. It made me laugh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMQAlw7LoPw
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Salza, the "ex-Freemason" crusader who "exposed" the Lodge, yet had no problem receiving an award from the masonic Order of the Sons of Italy?
For those unaware, check out this thread (https://www.cathinfo.com/fighting-errors-in-the-modern-world/john-salza-and-the-order-of-the-sons-of-italy/msg874217/#msg874217).
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I heard this on Tradcast. It made me laugh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMQAlw7LoPw
Yes, that was the link I provided, but I like yours better.
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I found Father Cekada's "Dead on Arrival" video about the S&S book to be very funny ... though, alas, at the expense of the authors.
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I listened to the first few minutes of the youtube, enough half truths in those few minutes so no need to listen to the whole thing.
The truth remains that sedeism certainly isn't a doctrine, dogma, or a truth taught by the Catholic Church - and should never, not ever be treated as if it is - because that's heresy - sedeism *should* be treated as an opinion and nothing more, because that's what it is, always was and will be.
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enough half truths in those few minutes so no need to listen to the whole thing.
Can you be more specific on what some of those half truths are.
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When people make absurd hyperbolic statements, such as that Trads constitute the Great Apostasy, it's a sign of guilty conscience, where they know they're rejecting the truth and is related to sins against the Holy Spirit. You'll find that the most virulent anti-Catholics among Prots are all the ex-Catholics, and they feel a need to justify to themselves more than to anyone else, to silence their consciences, and thus they hyperbolize the "evils" of the Catholic Church to the point of caricature.
Either that or they're just deliberate/conscious moles who went in to disrupt the Traditional movement.
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I listened to the first few minutes of the youtube, enough half truths in those few minutes so no need to listen to the whole thing.
The truth remains that sedeism certainly isn't a doctrine, dogma, or a truth taught by the Catholic Church - and should never, not ever be treated as if it is - because that's heresy - sedeism *should* be treated as an opinion and nothing more, because that's what it is, always was and will be.
I don't get it Stubborn. This particular Tradcast was referring to Salza saying ALL of the Trads are the Great Apostasy, not just the sedes. Most of Mario's comments weren't focusing on "sedeism". This was one of those times when we were all lumped together. Salza doesn't differentiate between us....anymore.
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I don't get it Stubborn. This particular Tradcast was referring to Salza saying ALL of the Trads are the Great Apostasy, not just the sedes. Most of Mario's comments weren't focusing on "sedeism". This was one of those times when we were all lumped together. Salza doesn't differentiate between us....anymore.
He's getting more and more like Meg, where he sees "sedeism" behind every bush. This podcast was about Traditional Catholicism in general and had nothing to do with the R&R vs. SV debate.
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Yes, that was the link I provided, but I like yours better.
I couldn't open your link- I didn't know if it was just me or across the board. It's a good show!
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To be charitable, I can’t really listen to anyone who made a huge sinful bad choice to join the free masons. If you look at the facts and Church history, the novus Ordo broke off to create a new order World church with the help of radical liberal Protestants and even rabbis.
The Novus Ordo is the great apostasy; not traditional Catholicism.
Most novus churches are starting to look the progressive Protestant churches. Many have lame modern music and they have stages with tv screens up front. They preach a false gospel of accepting mortal sin as the norm in church and society. They are church controlled by the government which is communism. There are plenty novus Ordo sodomite and adulterer friendly parishes. The great apostasy is the rape of children which the novus ordo hierarchy condones.
Maybe former masons should read and comprehend the Bible which is the Word of God. I don’t need to buy or read any books by Freemasons or branches of free masons posing as Catholic organizations. One book to read is the douay rheims bible.
Culture changes but The gospel of Jesus Christ remains the same!
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Well, it's contrary to charity to not even listen to him or personally give him the benefit of the doubt regardless of his past, but that doesn't mean he should be trusted, especially in any kind of high profile role such as which he held. It's analogous to Michael Voris. I might listen to him, and personally assume that he had left his past life behind, but I would never let my young boys stay over his house for a sleepover, regardless of how "converted" he might be. Same with Salza. It's one thing to have welcomed him to Traditional Catholicism, but to allow him to assume such a high profile role as a regular speaker at conferences, etc.? That's absurd, given that one of Masonry's goals is to infiltrate and subvert. Who's to say that Salza didn't infiltrate Traditional Catholicism precisely to subvert or at least damage it? After his "conversion," he still had no problems receiving awards from Masonic organizations.
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Some are to be avoided altogether. I don’t have time to listen to some one who is an imposter. A Catholic who knows their faith is not going to accept an award from any organization that denies Jesus Christ. Is it true that Freemasons praised Bergolio?
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Dear Mr Salza, so Traditional Catholicism, which is less than 0.1% of the global population, is the "great apostasy"? :facepalm: :laugh1::laugh2::laugh1::laugh2::laugh1::laugh2: :facepalm:
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I found Father Cekada's "Dead on Arrival" video about the S&S book to be very funny ... though, alas, at the expense of the authors.
I laughed way too hard at that video. The way he was tearing apart the book and throwing it in the trash and his voice and inflections and mannerisms made it even more funny.
I personally think Salsa is an infil-traitor. I WANT to give him the benefit of the doubt but he trips way too many red flags to trust.
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I don't get it Stubborn. This particular Tradcast was referring to Salza saying ALL of the Trads are the Great Apostasy, not just the sedes. Most of Mario's comments weren't focusing on "sedeism". This was one of those times when we were all lumped together. Salza doesn't differentiate between us....anymore.
Good summary, but one of the things I was referring to was that he lumped us all together, which is, as I said, a half truth. For example, the below is quoted (from Bonaventure on SD)...
Remember, the anti una cuм clergy (Dolan, Cekada, Sanborn, et al.) are not saying to use discretion when attending a valid "Una cuм" Mass.
These men are saying it is a "mortal sin," a sin against the first commandment, and Sanborn's seminary prefect and professor has publicly written that one una cuм Mass is more offensive to almighty God than all of the abortions ever committed in history.
I know S&S wrote a book about SV vs R&R but never paid much attention to S&S so cannot really comment on what they did to themselves.
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Well, it's contrary to charity to not even listen to him or personally give him the benefit of the doubt regardless of his past, but that doesn't mean he should be trusted, especially in any kind of high profile role such as which he held. It's analogous to Michael Voris. I might listen to him, and personally assume that he had left his past life behind, but I would never let my young boys stay over his house for a sleepover, regardless of how "converted" he might be. Same with Salza. It's one thing to have welcomed him to Traditional Catholicism, but to allow him to assume such a high profile role as a regular speaker at conferences, etc.? That's absurd, given that one of Masonry's goals is to infiltrate and subvert. Who's to say that Salza didn't infiltrate Traditional Catholicism precisely to subvert or at least damage it? After his "conversion," he still had no problems receiving awards from Masonic organizations.
I can't think of one layperson that I listen to as regards anything that has to do with our holy religion, I can think of only a few that I used to listen to - because over the years they have proven themselves to be at least unreliable, and/or have an ulterior motive or alternate agenda contrary to the actual truth, usually for profit - and at some point are usually exposed for what they are. Better to listen to those trad priests and clergy commissioned by the Church and not listen to laymen.
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Good summary, but one of the things I was referring to was that he lumped us all together, which is, as I said, a half truth.
So, in other words, you are the only one doing the dividing in this thread. Here I thought we could all agree that Salza was wrong about Trads in general. But according to you, sedes aren't even Trads apparently. Silly me.
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I couldn't open your link- I didn't know if it was just me or across the board. It's a good show!
Oh, it might be across the board. Maybe it's because the link is from the email I got directly from NOW.
I see NOW also has a blog entry about this now:
Comedy Hour with Salza and Siscoe: The Great Apostasy is Catholic Traditionalism! – Novus Ordo Watch (https://novusordowatch.org/2024/05/salza-siscoe-great-apostasy-is-traditionalism/)
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And to think the SSPX endorsed this kooks book. That says a lot
Salza is a hypocrite and a fraud.
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So, in other words, you are the only one doing the dividing in this thread. Here I thought we could all agree that Salza was wrong about Trads in general. But according to you, sedes aren't even Trads apparently. Silly me.
S&S are what they are, I do not know much about them except for the little I read here on CI about them, they do not interest me nor does their book or what they have to say - about anything really. I do not involve or concern myself with their ideas or what they have to say.
I clicked on the video to give it a listen and heard more half truths from some lay man - if he's the guy that runs NOW I would not know, but from reading this thread I gather that apparently he is, oh well. To me it's no comedy, not in the least.
I am not completely sure how that makes you think that that means that it is apparent that I do not consider sedes to be trads, but you're wrong there.
I posted the quote from Bonaventure to exemplify that we are not all lumped together, that there is a line there and although I sincerely wish it was not there, it's there, and it is a dividing line, one that keeps us from being lumped together. It's the elephant in the room.
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And to think the SSPX endorsed this kooks book. That says a lot
Salza is a hypocrite and a fraud.
We tried to point from the very beginning out that the excessively- or even exclusively- legalistic view of the Church was deeply flawed, and here S&S are merely taking those flawed principles to their logical conclusion, where Salza was forced to conclude that Joe Biden is a Catholic but Traditional Catholics are not. But the SSPX were high-fiving each other in celebration of this attack on "evil sedevacantism", oblivious to the fact that the principles behind it condemn them as well.
One more reason I suspect that S&S are agents of some kind is that the two remain in lock-step even after this radical shift. I would have thought at one point that S&S might have been able to think independently of one another and arrive at different conclusions.
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S&S are what they are, I do not know much about them except for the little I read here on CI about them, they do not interest me nor does their book or what they have to say - about anything really. I do not involve or concern myself with their ideas or what they have to say.
I clicked on the video to give it a listen and heard more half truths from some lay man - if he's the guy that runs NOW I would not know, but from reading this thread I gather that apparently he is, oh well. To me it's no comedy, not in the least.
I am not completely sure how that makes you think that that means that it is apparent that I do not consider sedes to be trads, but you're wrong there.
I posted the quote from Bonaventure to exemplify that we are not all lumped together, that there is a line there and although I sincerely wish it was not there, it's there, and it is a dividing line, one that keeps us from being lumped together. It's the elephant in the room.
If you don't care what S&S has to say/don't know much about them, then why give it a listen (but not give it a chance and listen to the whole thing), and then post something by some "laymen" on SD that happens to agree with your issues with "sedeism"? Suddenly it matters what a layman thinks. Again, there was no need for that here.
It's pretty clear why I think you don't think sedes are Trads from your post. You didn't like lumping sedes with non-sedes when speaking of "Trads".
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He's getting more and more like Meg, where he sees "sedeism" behind every bush. This podcast was about Traditional Catholicism in general and had nothing to do with the R&R vs. SV debate.
Yep.
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Oh, it might be across the board. Maybe it's because the link is from the email I got directly from NOW.
I see NOW also has a blog entry about this now:
Comedy Hour with Salza and Siscoe: The Great Apostasy is Catholic Traditionalism! – Novus Ordo Watch (https://novusordowatch.org/2024/05/salza-siscoe-great-apostasy-is-traditionalism/)
2V, I want to tell you that I really like your new avatar. :cowboy:
I thought it was impossible to shock me into speechlessness by this late hour, but.................. I mean did these two men actually say this in public? If I hadn't heard it from their own mouths, I might be reluctant to believe it. What they said is certifiably clinically insane (psychotic break with reality), categorically irrational (the first principles and operations of reason are not operative in the minds of these "knowers"), and flagrantly stupid (as in manifesting essentially bovine brain function).
Phew!!!!!!!!!!!
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If you don't care what S&S has to say/don't know much about them, then why give it a listen (but not give it a chance and listen to the whole thing),
To what end? I listened to the point of hearing a half truth, which are most often more dangerous than an outright lie. I do not purposely expose myself to such things, never have because there is a danger there. I am not immune from such dangers and am well aware that I am susceptible to being deceived - if I continue to listen.
and then post something by some "laymen" on SD that happens to agree with your issues with "sedeism"? Suddenly it matters what a layman thinks. Again, there was no need for that here.
I have heard the same thing plenty of times in the past from others who know, his quote was the most recent I've come across that demonstrates the half truth (of all trads lumped together) that I mentioned.
It's pretty clear why I think you don't think sedes are Trads from your post. You didn't like lumping sedes with non-sedes when speaking of "Trads".
Yes, because we're divided on a critical issue we cannot all be lumped together - not sure why sedes, who on the one hand separate themselves from other trads, would even want to be lumped together with all trads on the other.
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I'm not arguing with you Stubborn....bottom line is that this thread was not meant to be a divisive one. It is you who made it so. You have yet to comment on the real subject matter: that Salza considers ALL trads to be the "Great Apostasy".
The podcast made it clear that he is considering all those who are against Vatican II as "Trad". That includes ALL sedes and non-sedes that take issue with the NO religion (and don't just "prefer" the TLM) regardless of any other differences. In that sense, we are all Trad and we are all John Salza's target.
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I'm not arguing with you Stubborn....bottom line is that this thread was not meant to be a divisive one. It is you who made it so. You have yet to comment on the real subject matter: that Salza considers ALL trads to be the "Great Apostasy".
The podcast made it clear that he is considering all those who are against Vatican II as "Trad". That includes ALL sedes and non-sedes that take issue with the NO religion (and don't just "prefer" the TLM) regardless of any other differences. In that sense, we are all Trad and we are all John Salza's target.
If that's what he's saying then he's only saying essentially the same crap that has been said against us since the 1960s and means nothing, it's a tinkling cymbal.
I understand many people look to S&S like they're some sort of authority or theologians or whatever, there's noting we can do about that, they're going to keep listening and keep getting themselves be deceived, derailed, confused or whatever - apparently nobody tells them to not listen to them, of if they were told to not listen to them, would not listen to those telling them to not listen.
The video says and implies the situation as a comedy, or is in it's own way humorous - which is in and of itself pretty sad.
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Salza, the "ex-Freemason" crusader who "exposed" the Lodge, yet had no problem receiving an award from the masonic Order of the Sons of Italy?
For those unaware, check out this thread (https://www.cathinfo.com/fighting-errors-in-the-modern-world/john-salza-and-the-order-of-the-sons-of-italy/msg874217/#msg874217).
Can one actually ever be an "ex-freemason"?Sincere question .
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I took a look at their website, and they seem to be obsessed with proving that Vatican II is in-line with the Catholic Faith and the SSPX is schismatic. It seems their mental health is spiraling down. Poor guys.
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2V, I want to tell you that I really like your new avatar. :cowboy:
I thought it was impossible to shock me into speechlessness by this late hour, but.................. I mean did these two men actually say this in public? If I hadn't heard it from their own mouths, I might be reluctant to believe it. What they said is certifiably clinically insane (psychotic break with reality), categorically irrational (the first principles and operations of reason are not operative in the minds of these "knowers"), and flagrantly stupid (as in manifesting essentially bovine brain function).
Phew!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks Simeon! I've been quite interested in Lourdes and St Bernadette as of late. I actually found the avatar in the gallery on this site.
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I took a look at their website, and they seem to be obsessed with proving that Vatican II is in-line with the Catholic Faith
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Well, you have to do that if you have the position they have. That's logical.
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Can one actually ever be an "ex-freemason"?Sincere question .
Yes. The great reactionary philosopher Joseph de Maistre is an example of a sincere ex-Freemason.
Here's what (among other things) the Catholic Encyclopedia had to say about him:
To appreciate de Maistre in his writings as a whole, one may remark that his ideas (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07630a.htm) are bold and penetrating, and his views so clear and accurate that at times they seem prophetic. An enthusiastic believer in the principle of authority, which the Revolution (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13009a.htm) tried to destroy, he defends it everywhere: in the State by extolling the monarchy, in the Church (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm) by exalting the privileges of the papacy (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12260a.htm); in the world by glorifying the rights (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13055c.htm) and the conduct of God (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06608a.htm). His style is strong, lively, picturesque; animation and good humour temper his dogmatic tone, and he might even be deemed eloquent. It is true (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15073a.htm) he does not disdain paradox in his thinking or violence (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15446a.htm) in his language: he has neither the moderation nor the serenity of Bossuet (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02698b.htm). But he possesses a wonderful facility in exposition, precision of doctrine (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05075b.htm), breadth of learning, and dialectical (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04770a.htm) power. He influenced the age that followed him: he dealt Gallicanism such decisive blows that it never rose again. In a word, he was a great and virtuous man, a profound thinker, and one of the finest writers of that French language (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06190a.htm) of which his works are a distinguished ornament.
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Yes. The great reactionary philosopher Joseph de Maistre is an example of a sincere ex-Freemason.
Here's what (among other things) the Catholic Encyclopedia had to say about him:
Thank you for the kind reply.
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Thank you for the kind reply.
You're welcome!
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Can one actually ever be an "ex-freemason"?Sincere question .
Yes!
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Trads comprise only < 1% of all the baptized!
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I can't think of one layperson that I listen to as regards anything that has to do with our holy religion, I can think of only a few that I used to listen to - because over the years they have proven themselves to be at least unreliable, and/or have an ulterior motive or alternate agenda contrary to the actual truth, usually for profit - and at some point are usually exposed for what they are. Better to listen to those trad priests and clergy commissioned by the Church and not listen to laymen.
Yet you will spend hours on end on CathInfo, a platform composed primarily of laymen. And the traditional priests and bishops, let us be clear, have received no "commission," unless you are referring to Our Lord's words, "Go therefore into all the world..." We are all of us, laymen and clergy included, operating without any type of "commission," howsoever we are to accept the meaning of the term.
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There are many novus Ordo Catholics who are members of Knights of Columbus and Freemasons. Many kind people thinking free masons is just a group who does charity for the community.
I’m disappointed that the Knights of Columbus and even Ancient order of Hibernians are very similar to free mason groups with secret initiations, degrees and plain worldly silliness. For years the Knights of Columbus wore tuxedoes like free masons.
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Yet you will spend hours on end on CathInfo, a platform composed primarily of laymen. And the traditional priests and bishops, let us be clear, have received no "commission," unless you are referring to Our Lord's words, "Go therefore into all the world..." We are all of us, laymen and clergy included, operating without any type of "commission," howsoever we are to accept the meaning of the term.
Who here, besides you, has a following?
No, here we have "discussions" that often turn into debates - sometimes friendly debates, but not usually.
When I want to learn about our holy religion, I don't listen to Voris or any other layman, I listen to traditional clergy - but you listen to whoever you want, doesn't bother me.
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There are many novus Ordo Catholics who are members of Knights of Columbus and Freemasons. Many kind people thinking free masons is just a group who does charity for the community.
I’m disappointed that the Knights of Columbus and even Ancient order of Hibernians are very similar to free mason groups with secret initiations, degrees and plain worldly silliness. For years the Knights of Columbus wore tuxedoes like free masons.
Are Knights of Columbus really like that? I had no idea.
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Are Knights of Columbus really like that? I had no idea.
Yeah, the Knights of Columbus are lost. An acquaintance of mine who was a member has testified to me that their ceremonies include declarations of "Hail Liberty" and "Hail America", and such idolatrous nonsense. He's actually intending to record one of these ceremonies, so I'll be sure to post it here with his permission once that is done.
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Archkanzler:
That will be interesting to see. Thanks!