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Author Topic: Jєωιѕн influence in Vatican II  (Read 2609 times)

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Offline Zenith

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Jєωιѕн influence in Vatican II
« on: September 16, 2012, 05:53:23 PM »
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  • http://forward.com/articles/159955/converts-who-changed-the-church/?p=all

    Converts Who Changed the Church
    Jєωιѕн-Born Clerics Helped Push Vatican II Reforms

    Fifty years ago this fall, Catholic bishops gathered in Rome for a council that would bring the church “up to date” by making it speak more directly to the modern world. After three years of deliberation, the bishops voted on and accepted statements that permitted the faithful to attend mass in their own languages, encouraged lay reading of scripture and entreated Catholics to think of other religions as sources of truth and grace. The council referred to the church as “people of God” and suggested a more democratic ordering of relations between bishops and the pope. It also passed a statement on non-Christian religions, known by its Latin title, Nostra Aetate (“In our times”). Part four of this declaration, a statement on the Jєωs, proved most controversial, several times almost failing because of the opposition of conservative bishops.

    Nostra Aetate confirmed that Christ, his mother and the apostles were Jєωs, and that the church had its origin in the Old Testament. It denied that the Jєωs may be held collectively responsible for Jesus Christ’s death, and decried all forms of hatred, including anti-Semitism. Citing the Letter of St. Paul to the Romans, Nostra Aetate called the Jєωs “most beloved” by God. These words seem commonsensical today, but they staged a revolution in Catholic teaching.

    Despite opposition from within their ranks, the bishops knew that they could not be silent on the Jєωs. When the docuмent stalled in May 1965, one of them explained why they must push on: “The historical context: 6 million Jєωιѕн dead. If the council, taking place 20 years after these facts, remains silent about them, then it would inevitably evoke the reaction expressed by Hochhuth in ‘The Deputy.’” This bishop was referring to German playwright Rolf Hochhuth’s depiction of a silent and uncaring Pius XII in the face of the h0Ɩ0cαųst. That was no longer the church these bishops wished to live in.

    The problem was, they had possessed no language of their own with which to break the silence. More than most academic disciplines, theology is a complex thicket with each branch guarded by a prickly coterie of experts. Those wanting to grasp the complexities of the church’s relations to Jєωs had to study eschatology, soteriology, patristics, Old and New Testament, and church history through all its periods. The bishops thus found themselves relying on tiny groups of experts who had cared enough to amass the unusual intellectual qualifications for this task.

    As I discovered while researching my recently published book, “From Enemy to Brother: The Revolution in Catholic Teaching on the Jєωs, 1933–1965,” these experts did not begin their work in the 1960s. From outposts in Austria and Switzerland, several had tried to formulate Catholic arguments against anti-Semitism under the shadow of nαzιsm three decades earlier. They were as unrepresentative of Catholicism as one can imagine. Not only were they, Central Europeans, brave enough to stand up to Hitler when it counted, but they mostly had not been born Catholic. The Catholics who helped bring the church to recognition of the continuing sanctity of the Jєωιѕн people were converts, many of them from Jєωιѕн families.

    Most important was Johannes Oesterreicher, born in 1904 into the home of the Jєωιѕн veterinarian Nathan and his wife, Ida, in Stadt-Liebau, a German-language community in northern Moravia. As a boy, he took part in Zionist scouting and acted as elected representative of the Jєωs in his high school, but then, for reasons that remain inexplicable (he later said he ”fell in love with Christ”), Oesterreicher took an interest in Christian writings (Cardinal Newman, Kierkegaard and the Gospels themselves), and under the influence of a priest later martyred by the nαzιs (Max Josef Metzger) he became a Catholic and then a priest. In the early 1930s he took over the initiative of the Diocese of Vienna for converting Jєωs, hoping to bring family and friends into the church. In this his success was limited. Where he had an impact was in gathering other Catholic thinkers to oppose nαzι racism. To his shock, Oesterreicher found this racism entering the work of leading Catholic thinkers, who taught that Jєωs were racially damaged and therefore could not receive the grace of baptism. His friends in this endeavor included fellow converts like philosopher Dietrich von Hildebrand and the theologian Karl Thieme and political philosopher Waldemar Gurian. In 1937, Gurian, Oesterreicher and Thieme penned a Catholic statement on the Jєωs, arguing, against the racists, that Jєωs carried a special holiness. Though it constituted orthodox teaching, not a single bishop (let alone the Vatican) signed on.

    Oesterreicher escaped Austria when the nαzιs entered, in 1938, and continued work from Paris, broadcasting German-language sermons into the Reich, informing Catholics that Hitler was an “unclean spirit” and the “antipode in human form,” and describing nαzι crimes committed against Jєωs and Poles. In the spring of 1940 he barely eluded an advance team of Gestapo agents, and via Marseille and Lisbon he made his way to New York City and ultimately Seton Hall University, where he became the leading expert on relations with Jєωs in America’s Catholic Church.

    Oesterreicher gradually abandoned his “missionary” approach to the Jєωs and increasingly called his work ecuмenical. He and like-minded Christians tried to figure out how to ground their belief in continued vocation of Jєωιѕн people in Christian scripture. If the battle before the war was against the superficial assumptions of nαzι racism, after the war it took aim at the deeply rooted beliefs of Christian anti-Judaism. In the former period, the converts argued that, yes, Jєωs can be baptized. In the second period, even if they continued to believe that Jєωs must be baptized to escape the curse of rejecting Christ, these thinkers began pondering the nature of the supposed curse.

    If history was a series of trials sent to punish the Jєωs for failing to accept Christ, then what meaning did Auschwitz have? Were the nαzιs instruments of God’s will, meant to make the Jєωs finally turn to Christ? To answer yes to this question was obscene, but it was the only answer Catholic theology provided as of 1945. In the years that followed, the converts had to stage a revolution in a church that claimed to be unchanging. They did so by shifting church teaching to Paul’s letter to the Romans, chapters 9–11, where the Apostle, without speaking of baptism or conversion, proclaims that the Jєωs remain “beloved of God” and that “all Israel will be saved.”

    Like Oesterreicher, the thinkers who did the intellectual work that prepared this revolution were overwhelmingly converts. Soon after the war, Thieme joined with cσncєnтrαтισn cαмρ survivor Gertrud Luckner to publish the Freiburger Rundbrief in southwest Germany, where they made crucial theological breakthroughs on the path to conciliation with the Jєωs. In Paris, the Rev. Paul Démann, a converted Hungarian Jєω, began publishing the review Cahiers Sioniens and, with the help of fellow converts Geza Vermes and Renée Bloch, refuted the anti-Judaism in Catholic school catechisms.

    In 1961, Oesterreicher was summoned for work in the Vatican II committee tasked with the “Jєωιѕн question,” which became the most difficult issue to face the bishops. At one critical moment in October 1964, priests Gregory Baum and Bruno Hussar joined Oesterreicher in assembling what became the final text of the council’s decree on the Jєωs, voted on by the bishops a year later. Like Oesterreicher, Baum and Hussar were converts of Jєωιѕн background.

    They were continuing a trend going back to the First Vatican Council in 1870, when the brothers Lémann — Jєωs who had become Catholics and priests — presented a draft declaration on relations between the church and Jєωs, stating that Jєωs “are always very dear to God” because of their fathers and because Christ has issued from them “according to the flesh.” Without converts to Catholicism, it seems, the Catholic Church would never have “thought its way” out of the challenges of racist anti-Judaism.

    The high percentage of Jєωιѕн converts like Oesterreicher among Catholics who were opposed to anti-Semitism makes sense: In the 1930s they were targets of nαzι racism who could not avoid the racism that had entered the church. In their opposition, they were simply holding their church to its own universalism. But by turning to long-neglected passages in St. Paul’s letter to the Romans, they also opened the mind of the church to a new appreciation of the Jєωιѕн people.

    What were the impulses behind their engagement after the war? In a generous review of my book in The New Republic, Peter Gordon suggests that the converts’ willingness to advocate for the other was driven by a concern for the self. They had retained a sense of themselves as Jєωs even in the Catholic Church. Gordon reminds us of Sigmund Freud’s skepticism about the possibility of love of other. True love, Freud believed, “was always entangled with narcissism: it is not the other whom I love but myself, or at least it is only that quality in the other which resembles me or resembles the person I once was.” Yet in Oesterreicher we see an enduring solidarity with the community that once was his, most immediately his family. In 1946 he pondered the fate of his father, who had died of pneumonia in Theresienstadt (his mother was later murdered at Auschwitz). Contrary to the ancient Christian idea that there is no salvation outside the church, Oesterreicher did not despair for his father. Nathan Oesterreicher had been a just man, to whom the “beatitude of the peacemakers applied.” If Oesterreicher, the son, had been a true narcissist, he might have rested content in the belief that he was saved through baptism. Yet intense love and longing for his Jєωιѕн father began opening Oesterreicher’s mind to the possibility that Jєωs could be saved as Jєωs.

    The lasting gift of the converts who helped rewrite Catholic teaching on the Jєωs was to extend their familial sense of solidarity to us, to Jєωs and Christians. In 1964, Oesterreicher personally crafted that part of Nostra Aetate according to which the church no longer speaks of mission to the Jєωs, but looks forward to the day when all “peoples will address the Lord in a single voice and ‘serve him shoulder to shoulder.’” (The last phrase is taken from Zephaniah 3:9.) With this new teaching, the church gave up the attempt to turn the other into the self, and after this point Catholics involved in Christian-Jєωιѕн dialogue tend not to be converts. They live out of the new understanding that Jєωs and Christians are brothers. The converts crossed a border to the other while in some deep sense remaining themselves, but by recognizing the legitimacy, indeed the blessing, of our differences, they helped bring down a wall separating Jєωs and Christians.

    John Connelly is professor of history at the University of California, Berkeley, and the author of “From Enemy to Brother: the Revolution in Catholic Teaching on the Jєωs, 1933-1965,” (Harvard University Press,2012).





    Offline Telesphorus

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    Jєωιѕн influence in Vatican II
    « Reply #1 on: September 16, 2012, 06:11:20 PM »
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  • Quote
    True love, Freud believed, “was always entangled with narcissism: it is not the other whom I love but myself, or at least it is only that quality in the other which resembles me or resembles the person I once was.”


    Be very, very wary of Catholics who bandy about this sort of terminology.



    Offline Traditional Guy 20

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    Jєωιѕн influence in Vatican II
    « Reply #2 on: September 16, 2012, 07:06:08 PM »
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  • Vatican II was a way for the Catholic Church to not only deny that it has the True Faith but not to preach it anymore to the Jєωs, and to capitulate to them.

    In all honesty Jєωιѕн influence was around LONG BEFORE Vatican II and the cultural Marxists already were in the seminaries by then, followed soon afterwards by the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ pervert child predators.

    Offline Zenith

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    Jєωιѕн influence in Vatican II
    « Reply #3 on: September 16, 2012, 09:47:13 PM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Quote
    True love, Freud believed, “was always entangled with narcissism: it is not the other whom I love but myself, or at least it is only that quality in the other which resembles me or resembles the person I once was.”


    Be very, very wary of Catholics who bandy about this sort of terminology.


    I'm not sure what your point is. The writer is not Catholic and I don't know of any Catholics who bandy this sort of terminology.
    I hope you are not going to turn this article on Jєωιѕн influence in Vatican II into another of your battles of the sexes.  

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Jєωιѕн influence in Vatican II
    « Reply #4 on: September 16, 2012, 09:52:54 PM »
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  • Quote from: Zenith
    Quote from: Telesphorus
    Quote
    True love, Freud believed, “was always entangled with narcissism: it is not the other whom I love but myself, or at least it is only that quality in the other which resembles me or resembles the person I once was.”


    Be very, very wary of Catholics who bandy about this sort of terminology.


    I'm not sure what your point is. The writer is not Catholic and I don't know of any Catholics who bandy this sort of terminology.
    I hope you are not going to turn this article on Jєωιѕн influence in Vatican II into another of your battles of the sexes.  


    This is about Jєωs influencing Catholicism.  The SSPX of the Zionist lawyer resorts to charges of mental illness.

    The biggest fault-line between the Fellayites and the opposition is the Jєωιѕн question.

    The liberals in the SSPX will use the wrecking ball of PC name-calling, and the old stand-by of charging people with mental illness.  That's how they operate.

    Is it any surprise they bring in someone like Krah?


    Offline nadieimportante

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    Jєωιѕн influence in Vatican II
    « Reply #5 on: September 19, 2012, 09:01:36 AM »
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  • Quote from: Zenith
    http://forward.com/articles/159955/converts-who-changed-the-church/?p=all

    Converts Who Changed the Church
    Jєωιѕн-Born Clerics Helped Push Vatican II Reforms

    ....The Catholics who helped bring the church to recognition of the continuing sanctity of the Jєωιѕн people were converts, many of them from Jєωιѕн families.

    ..... In the former period, the converts argued that, yes, Jєωs can be baptized. In the second period, even if they continued to believe that Jєωs must be baptized to escape the curse of rejecting Christ, these thinkers began pondering the nature of the supposed curse.

    .... In the years that followed, the converts had to stage a revolution in a church that claimed to be unchanging. They did so by shifting church teaching to Paul’s letter to the Romans, chapters 9–11, where the Apostle, without speaking of baptism or conversion, proclaims that the Jєωs remain “beloved of God” and that “all Israel will be saved.”

    Like Oesterreicher, the thinkers who did the intellectual work that prepared this revolution were overwhelmingly converts.

    In 1961, Oesterreicher was summoned for work in the Vatican II committee tasked with the “Jєωιѕн question,” which became the most difficult issue to face the bishops. At one critical moment in October 1964, priests Gregory Baum and Bruno Hussar joined Oesterreicher in assembling what became the final text of the council’s decree on the Jєωs, voted on by the bishops a year later. Like Oesterreicher, Baum and Hussar were converts of Jєωιѕн background.

    They... stating that Jєωs “are always very dear to God” because of their fathers and because Christ has issued from them “according to the flesh.” Without converts to Catholicism, it seems, the Catholic Church would never have “thought its way” out of the challenges of racist anti-Judaism.

    What were the impulses behind their engagement after the war? In a generous review of my book in The New Republic, Peter Gordon suggests that the converts’ willingness to advocate for the other was driven by a concern for the self. They had retained a sense of themselves as Jєωs even in the Catholic Church. ... Oesterreicher we see an enduring solidarity with the community that once was his, most immediately his family. In 1946 he pondered the fate of his father, who had died of pneumonia in Theresienstadt (his mother was later murdered at Auschwitz). Contrary to the ancient Christian idea that there is no salvation outside the church, Oesterreicher did not despair for his father. Nathan Oesterreicher had been a just man, to whom the “beatitude of the peacemakers applied.” If Oesterreicher, the son, had been a true narcissist, he might have rested content in the belief that he was saved through baptism. Yet intense love and longing for his Jєωιѕн father began opening Oesterreicher’s mind to the possibility that Jєωs could be saved as Jєωs.

    .. The converts crossed a border to the other while in some deep sense remaining themselves, but by recognizing the legitimacy, indeed the blessing, of our differences, they helped bring down a wall separating Jєωs and Christians.




    Bottom line is that these Jєωιѕн convert priests wanted to believe that Jєωs can be saved outside of the Church, so they invented a new "doctrine". Now Jєωs don't need to convert.

    This is analogus to someone covering their water temperature gauge with masking so that their coolant starved engine won't overheat.

    These priest are actually a punishment of God upon the Jєωs, just as all of Vatican II is a punishment of God upon the CINO's (Catholic in name only), and the secular world. Language to confuse rather than to communicate. The world says they want a Church that does not warn them, they want tape put on the water temperature gauge. God granted them their wish.

    But why do real Catholics the concern ourselves with this? We concern ourselves because we KNOW that all these people are walking on the path to eternal perdition, and it is our duty to warn them, and never tire in trying to convert them.
    "Wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it.
     Right is right even if no one is doing it." - Saint Augustine