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Offline Neil Obstat

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Jehanne: "I would kiss the Koran under pressure"
« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2013, 10:19:28 PM »
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    Thank you, Jehanne, that was a reasoned response and not
    reactionary.  This is going to be quite a cross for Catholics to
    bear, if it finally does happen, and we have yet a little time to
    work out the knots and kinks in our attitude and outlook,
    but from the present point of perspective, things are looking
    pretty bleak.  

    Our Lady told us that it would be when all seems lost and
    when our faith will be pushed to the point where there is no
    more hope, that She will intervene.  

    She said that "It will be late," but that the Pope and bishops
    together will consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of
    Mary, and Russia will convert, and She will save us from the
    complete loss of our Faith by that means.  

    Well, it has been late for the past 30 years, but by Our Lady's
    standard, when She says "late" I guess it means that it can't
    get any later without it "crossing over the limit line."  Like,
    when she saves a soul falling into hell, she stops his fall just
    before he passes through the gates of hell, from whence there
    is no return.

    I remember a Superman episode when a woman was falling
    from a tall building, screaming and flailing her arms, and "our
    hero" swooped in to save her at the last possible moment:  
    He put his arms under her and slowed her fall, so as to come
    to a complete stop just as she was about to hit the sidewalk,
    in front of a crowd of people.  He then released her, standing
    safely upright on the ground, and she thanked him.  He replied,
    "You're welcome," and then he leapt into the air and flew off
    in front of everyone.  

    That was a "just-in-time Rescue."



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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Jehanne: "I would kiss the Koran under pressure"
    « Reply #31 on: August 19, 2013, 10:57:13 PM »
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    "The cement has already dried..."



    Quote
    ... if he would "reverse" the Church's teachings on the immorality of artificial contraception or homosexual acts, ...




    Two things about the WYD visit:


    1)  When he put the beach ball and the T-shirt on the altar at
    St. Mary Major, I thought, "These are things they passed out
    at WYD," so to speak, inasmuch as they are mundane objects
    that remind one of the event.  Well, what else do they "pass
    out"at WYD?  They pass out the Eucharist like it's candy, and
    they pass out condoms.  Now he wouldn't need to set the
    Eucharist on the altar at St. Mary Major, and he wouldn't dare
    set some condoms on the altar.  But what he DID set there so
    we can be reminded of WYD reminded me of those two other
    things, and so, by association, what's the difference?  To me,
    the message is literally the same:  it was as if Francis had set
    a plastic cup with Communion hosts, along with a few
    packages of condoms on the TRADITIONAL altar of St. Mary
    Major.  I know a traditional priest, who has a degree in
    theology from the Pope in Rome, so he is an approved
    theologian, and when I told him this, he agreed with me: It's
    the same thing by association!  
    He told me, that when he was
    in Rome he wanted to say Mass at that altar of St. Mary Major,
    but he was unable to get "permission."  It is among the most
    ornate and beautiful un-corrupted altars left in the world.  It is a
    principal archbasilica in Rome, second only to St. John Lateran,
    the Pope's "Cathedral." What's interesting is, the Pope didn't
    need permission to have access to this most inaccessible altar,
    and he made a media event out of placing a beach ball there
    with a WYD T-shirt.  But a trad priest, with a degree in theology
    from the Pope in Rome, is "not allowed" to say Mass at this
    same altar.  IOW, on the surface, this beach ball / T-shirt "event"
    is a "so what?" kind of thing, but if you look at it a bit more
    critically, it becomes quite ominous, indeed, as it implies papal
    approval of contraception by association.



    2)  What did the so-called president of Brazil do the day after
    Francis left?  She signed into law the legalization of same-sex
    so called marriage in Brazil.  Now, that's not something that
    Francis would have gone on record condoning, but did he react
    to it?  Did he publish a denouncement?  Did he show his
    disapproval in any way whatsoever?  No.  So, by his SILENCE,
    he approves of it.  And her apostate act can be seen as a bad
    fruit of Francis' visit to her country, when he met her in person
    and is on YouTube planting a hot kiss on her cheek.  "By their
    fruits you shall know them."



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    Offline Cathedra

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    Jehanne: "I would kiss the Koran under pressure"
    « Reply #32 on: August 19, 2013, 11:36:28 PM »
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  • Quote from: Jehanne
    Quote from: Cathedra
    And not only that but you were even exposed as an apostate who would kiss the Koran.


    This is false; I would never do such a thing willingly, and I have never said that I would, but only, perhaps, under coercion, a position which I no longer maintain.  However, if there is even the slightest possibility that I would be guilty of apostasy, whether material or formal, then, no, my position now is that I would never, under any circumstances whatsoever, "kiss the Koran," even if I was certain that such could avert a World War.


    And did i say that you would do so willingly and because you would like it?

    Read the title of the thread again.

    Quote from: Jehanne
    Acts which could be intrinsically evil must be viewed as being intrinsically evil; such is the safer course to follow to save one's eternal soul.  So, yes, Pope John Paul II was guilty of the sin of apostasy against the Catholic faith; whether such was material or formal, I cannot say.  I can say that he should not have, under circumstances whatsoever or from any motive whatsoever, kissed the Koran, a non-inspired book written by a deluded, epileptic man with illusions of grandeur.


    You bet he was a formal apostate.

    Again, you speak as if though the only thing he did was kiss the koran.

    Assisi and praising voodoo were height-of-iniquity caliber.

    Offline Cathedra

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    Jehanne: "I would kiss the Koran under pressure"
    « Reply #33 on: August 19, 2013, 11:52:27 PM »
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  • Quote from: Jehanne
    Quote from: Neil Obstat
    So then you should be fine when JPII is "canonized a saint."


    I don't know.  I guess that it depends if the sede position is correct, and as someone who has seriously considered that position, I don't know.


    Seriously considered the position is the last thing it looks like you have done.

    You routinely ignore what is directed at you and respond nothing.

    Tell me, have you read all the articles and arguments of sedevacantism from start to finish? At least the ones Cekada has written?

    Quote from: Jehanne
    It is difficult to believe that a true Pope can canonize someone who is not in Heaven; how could someone who genuinely possesses the "Keys to the Kingdom" do such a thing?


    Uh, HELLO!!! EARTH TO JEHANNE!!! HE COULD NOT BECAUSE HE IS NOT A REAL POPE!

    And NEWSFLASH: this already happened anyways.

    Did they not "canonize" Mother Teresa and Escriva, both public heretics and apostates? Do you accept those "con-anizations"?

    Quote from: Jehanne
    On the other hand, if Pope Francis is a fake, an anti-Pope, no explanation is needed, is there?


    What is said in the movie The Song of Bernadette applies to people like you:

    For those who believe in God no explanation is necessary; for those who don't believe in God no explanation will suffice.

    Quote from: Jehanne
    For me, what would be the "final straw"?


    I would bet Jorge could celebrate Hannukah with Jews and light menorahs and deny Christ in front of Rabbis and you would still consider him Pope.

    Oh wait...that already happened.

    Quote from: Jehanne
    I suppose if Pope Francis would ever contradict, explicitly, the Church's teachings on the natural law, I would become a sede.


    Oh so the fact that he has said and done EXPLICITLY HERETICAL, BLASPHEMOUS AND APOSTATE things is not enough for you?

    The natural law is above the Divine Law then?

    You are an idolater.

    Quote from: Jehanne
    For instance, if he would "reverse" the Church's teachings on the immorality of artificial contraception or homosexual acts, then I would certainly be convinced that sedevacanatism is the correct position.  Right now I have some doubts, but that's all that they are.  No "smoking gun" so far, but that remains to be seen.


    The smoking gun has been there for decades without even getting into the issue of the personal heresy or apostasy of the antipopes.

    That is, it has been there for honest and good willed people.

    There is no bigger blind than the one who doesn't want to see.

    Leave them alone: blind they are, guides of the blind. And if the blind be guide to the blind, both fall into the ditch.

     

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