Author Topic: Jan. 17, 2016 looms in less than three days (Read 6411 times)

Maria Regina · « **Reply #15 on:** January 15, 2016, 02:36:58 PM »

Quote from: Desmond

Quote from: Maria Regina

Very interesting comment.

The prophecies of Malachy are worded vaguely.

If Francis is not considered a Pope in these prophecies, then perhaps a right-believing pope could still emerge in the future, one that would fit the prophecy more precisely.

Maybe Francis can be excluded from the prophecy in virtue of being the first "alleged Pope" ordained in the New Rite, and therefore, assuming it is invalid, even unclassifiable as an "Antipope", but simply a mere lay usurper.

Count Down: 2 more days.

Will the Pope use his doppelganger (double) for this Jan. 17, 2016 event?

RomanCatholic1953 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 15, 2016, 05:10:31 PM »

Quote from: Maria Regina

Quote from: Desmond
Quote from: Maria Regina

Very interesting comment.

The prophecies of Malachy are worded vaguely.

If Francis is not considered a Pope in these prophecies, then perhaps a right-believing pope could still emerge in the future, one that would fit the prophecy more precisely.

Maybe Francis can be excluded from the prophecy in virtue of being the first "alleged Pope" ordained in the New Rite, and therefore, assuming it is invalid, even unclassifiable as an "Antipope", but simply a mere lay usurper.

Count Down: 2 more days.

Will the Pope use his doppelganger (double) for this Jan. 17, 2016 event?

He is a very heretical and unorthodox clown dressed in white. He is
a reflection of what the church is today.
Antipopes are listed in the prophecies of St. Malachy. Eventhough
the prophecies did not distinguished between Popes and Antipopes.

roscoe · « **Reply #17 on:** January 15, 2016, 05:18:31 PM »

Quote from: Desmond

Quote from: MyrnaM
Quote from: Desmond
Quote from: MyrnaM

,,,,,,however, I wonder about the prophecy and meaning because what if Francis is not a Pope at all, the count would be different, right! Just saying!

I've always read that St.Malachi's alleged prophecy lists BOTH Popes and Antipopes actually.

I am not disagreeing with you Desmond, because I wonder about something I was taught in High School back in the 50's. The nun told us that even the Antipopes never changed the teachings of the Church, so since the teachings of the Church have been changed in many ways, in my mind I don't even want to give "them" the credit of being an "Anti pope", just no pope at all. What do you think, like I said, I don't know for sure what I think on that point?

Yes I agree, generally an Anti-Pope is simply someone, sometimes/often in good faith, being elected when there was a Pope already, or illicitly elected only by parts of the Cardinalate.

Antipope is not synonimous with heresy or heterodoxy.

There is nothing inherently "bad" or "evil" about the people happening to be Antipopes. If they were, it is often in addition to that.

For instance, during the Western Schism, it is reasonable to assume all pretenders were not malevolently trying to usurp the See.

Wrong---- Anti-popes are indeed associated with heterodoxy and heresy. The Fr Popes of GWS are Not anti-popes for that very reason... :detective:

There is nothing dogmatic in the alleged prophesies of St Malachi.

Desmond · « **Reply #18 on:** January 15, 2016, 05:55:59 PM »

Quote from: roscoe

Wrong---- Anti-popes are indeed associated with heterodoxy and heresy. The Fr Popes of GWS are Not anti-popes for that very reason... :detective:

Where exactly does this belief come from?

Croix de Fer · « **Reply #19 on:** January 15, 2016, 05:59:47 PM »

Frank might get smoochy with the Koran :detective:, similar to anti-pope JP II's act of apostasy and false love.

roscoe · « **Reply #20 on:** January 15, 2016, 06:18:20 PM »

Quote from: Desmond

Quote from: roscoe

Wrong---- Anti-popes are indeed associated with heterodoxy and heresy. The Fr Popes of GWS are Not anti-popes for that very reason... :detective:

Where exactly does this belief come from?

1--- Acc to von Pastor, a compromise was reached to settle the schism.
Because there was no heterodoxy, heresy or ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs, it was decided that Catholics are allowed to recognise either the Fr or It Popes of GWS.

Also consult Atwater's Catholic Dictionary. It says the Fr Popes of GWS are 'not anti-popes because of the uncertainty of their status'. :reporter:

Desmond · « **Reply #21 on:** January 15, 2016, 06:32:43 PM »

Quote

1--- Acc to von Pastor, a compromise was reached to settle the schism.
Because there was no heterodoxy, heresy or ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs, it was decided that Catholics are allowed to recognise either the Fr or It Popes of GWS.

Also consult Atwater's Catholic Dictionary. It says the Fr Popes of GWS are 'not anti-popes because of the uncertainty of their status'. :reporter:

OK that most likely means:
That since only one could have been the real Pope, and by necessity, the other claimants had to be Antipopes...

BUT

Since there isn't (or wasn't) absolutely certainty as to which one was the valid Pope above doubt...

THEN

an individual person is/was allowed to regard any (actually Roman or Pisan) as valid.

NOT that the remaining ones weren't antipopes, merely we cannot (couldn't) tell which was which.

Only one Pope can be... Pope at any given time.
And any other claimant has to be considered an Antipope by definition.

By the way, the Liber Pontificalis lists the Roman Line as legitimate, allegedly until some decades ago the Pisan line was listed as valid also, while the Avignonian (French) one never was, so maybe you meant that? Roman or Pisan, not Italian vs French?

However, what I was actually trying to ask you is where does your assertion about Antipopes not being defined by uncanonical/invalid election, but instead by heterodoxy, comes from.

RomanCatholic1953 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 15, 2016, 07:12:17 PM »

Quote from: roscoe

Quote from: Desmond
Quote from: roscoe

Wrong---- Anti-popes are indeed associated with heterodoxy and heresy. The Fr Popes of GWS are Not anti-popes for that very reason... :detective:

Where exactly does this belief come from?

1--- Acc to von Pastor, a compromise was reached to settle the schism.
Because there was no heterodoxy, heresy or ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs, it was decided that Catholics are allowed to recognise either the Fr or It Popes of GWS.

Also consult Atwater's Catholic Dictionary. It says the Fr Popes of GWS are 'not anti-popes because of the uncertainty of their status'. :reporter:

Go to my second post on this thread. It is from the 1913 Catholic
Encyclopedia.
Popes and antipopes are listed together.

At the end times there is an apostasy in the Church.

Maria Regina · « **Reply #23 on:** January 15, 2016, 07:50:33 PM »

Quote from: RomanCatholic1953

Quote from: roscoe
Quote from: Desmond
Quote from: roscoe

Wrong---- Anti-popes are indeed associated with heterodoxy and heresy. The Fr Popes of GWS are Not anti-popes for that very reason... :detective:

Where exactly does this belief come from?

1--- Acc to von Pastor, a compromise was reached to settle the schism.
Because there was no heterodoxy, heresy or ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs, it was decided that Catholics are allowed to recognise either the Fr or It Popes of GWS.

Also consult Atwater's Catholic Dictionary. It says the Fr Popes of GWS are 'not anti-popes because of the uncertainty of their status'. :reporter:

Go to my second post on this thread. It is from the 1913 Catholic
Encyclopedia.
Popes and antipopes are listed together.

At the end times there is an apostasy in the Church.

My husband and I were just discussing this very thing.

Isn't it interesting how the Zionists, Illuminati, Bohemian Grove, Rothchilds, and the Bilderburgers, are planning on bringing on the End Times? So, currently, there is this Middle Eastern war between ISIS/Turkey and Russia, this nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr AntiChrist establishment in Belgium, and this New One World Religion of "love," recently revealed by Pope Francis. In addition, these Zionists and Illuminati, who think that they have all of the dots lined up, are actually fulfilling the Mystery of Inquity under Satan because they have conspired with him whether they realize it or not, and these wicked men are doing exactly what Lucifer has wanted them to do all along. They are his pawns.

This whole scenario reminds me of what C.S. Lewis wrote in That Hideous Strength, where the Head, whom the NICE people thought had under their control, revealed that it was he who always had them under his deadly control.

Indeed, we are rushing into the End Times, which Christ has revealed in the Holy Gospels, which is no secret, except we know not when it will occur. People thought that it would happen in 1000 AD, then people were quite sure it would happen during the 20th century reign of communism, but it did not. However, now with technological advances so that there is no place to hide, with the extreme wickedness of powerfully greedy and lustful men who oppress the majority of people, with the takeover of Rome and Orthodox Christianity by KGB operatives who pretend to be priests and bishops, with perturbations on the earth (increased volcanism) and in the heavens (comets, asteroids, and a Planet X ??), with rumors of war, with graphic evidence of beheadings, crucifixions, and persecutions of Christians, with the inability of many Christians to find jobs due to persecutions and the unChristian times in which we live, and with a dramatic loss of faith of the faithful and clergy, many Traditionalists are almost convinced that these must be the end times.

Yes, apostasy is overwhelming, and unless we have faith and pray unceasingly, we shall not survive.

roscoe · « **Reply #24 on:** January 15, 2016, 08:00:36 PM »

I'll re-read chaps 2 & 3 of Pastor vol I & reply. This can be found at Wikipedia. :detective:

Marlelar · « **Reply #25 on:** January 16, 2016, 12:09:28 AM »

Quote from: RomanCatholic1953

According to the prophecies of the Popes of St. Malachy Francis is the
last Pope of the Catholic Church.
Rome will be destroyed and the Terrible Judge will Judge his people.
THE END.

http://www.irishcentral.com/roots/history/st-malachy-predicted-pope-benedicts-successor-will-be-last-pope-190715001-237789421.html

from the link:

The prediction in full is "In the final persecution of the Holy Roman Church there will reign Peter the Roman, who will feed his flock amid many tribulations, after which the seven-hilled city will be destroyed and the dreadful Judge will judge the people. The End.”

The father of the current pope was Peter or Pietro and was from Italy even though the family moved to Argentina.

Francis is not named "Peter",nor did he take the name Peter, he took the name Francis. And Malachy never mentioned the names of the fathers of the Popes figuring into his prophecies so where exactly is the connection?

Francis also does not "feed" his flock during tribulation, he poisons the hearts and souls of "his" flock during tribulation, so again I do not see any connection.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #26 on:** January 16, 2016, 03:14:36 AM »

Quote

Jan. 17, 2016 looms in less than three days

Make that one day!

MyrnaM · « **Reply #27 on:** January 16, 2016, 09:01:43 AM »

Quote from: Marlelar

Quote from: RomanCatholic1953
According to the prophecies of the Popes of St. Malachy Francis is the
last Pope of the Catholic Church.
Rome will be destroyed and the Terrible Judge will Judge his people.
THE END.

http://www.irishcentral.com/roots/history/st-malachy-predicted-pope-benedicts-successor-will-be-last-pope-190715001-237789421.html

from the link:

The prediction in full is "In the final persecution of the Holy Roman Church there will reign Peter the Roman, who will feed his flock amid many tribulations, after which the seven-hilled city will be destroyed and the dreadful Judge will judge the people. The End.”

The father of the current pope was Peter or Pietro and was from Italy even though the family moved to Argentina.

Francis is not named "Peter",nor did he take the name Peter, he took the name Francis. And Malachy never mentioned the names of the fathers of the Popes figuring into his prophecies so where exactly is the connection?

Francis also does not "feed" his flock during tribulation, he poisons the hearts and souls of "his" flock during tribulation, so again I do not see any connection.

I have always thought that Peter is guiding the faithful from Heaven, just a thought or hopeful thinking, someone is helping us from above I do know that!

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #28 on:** January 16, 2016, 11:11:06 AM »

This is a fun topic, so here are my interpretations. Mostly this is my bubbling way of trying to stay positive and hope for the future.

1. We live in the astrological age of Pices, the 2 fishes. This age started circa 1 AD, which relates to the age of Christ. (This is also why you see the early christians using the "Jesus fish", as the protestants call it.)

2. We also live in the 5th age of the Church, according to the description of Ven Holzauser, which is full of heresies, trials, persecutions and a 'purification' of the Church is said to have started in the mid 1500s. This makes sense, as this was the start of the Protestantism, with Martin Luther, and a whole host of other spiritual evils.

http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Ven-Holzhauser-7-Ages-of-the-Church

b) Ven Holzauser says that the 5th age ends with the arrival of the Great Monarch and the Holy Pope. Thus begins the period of peace (and ties into Fatima) and the sixth age.

3. The 6th age of the Church is a beautiful restoration of the Faith throughout the world. All the world will be Catholic and all errors, heresies and spiritual evils will be destroyed, for a time.

b) The 6th age ends with the coming of the anti-christ, which begins the final age of the Church, a final persecution, and the end of the world.

4. The prophecy of St Malachy (if we are to believe it) is interesting in a few points, which many people gloss over.

a) though he started his prophecies in the 1100s, his list was not discovered and published until mid 1500s. This corresponds to the start of the 5th age.

b) According to St Malachy and the way it was written, Pope Benedict (i.e. "Glory of the Olives") is the last pope listed. The next pope "Peter the Roman" is not listed in the same manner as the previous popes; there is a new paragraph between "glory of the olives" and the sentences which lead to "Peter the Roman". Conclusion? Many scholars suggest that there could be many popes in between "Benedict" and "Peter the Roman" (i.e. the last pope).

c) My interpretation is that St Malachy's prophecies are meant for our AGE (i.e. 5th age). And that Pope Benedict is the last pope of the 5th age of the Church.

5. The Mayan calendar ended (part of it, at least) in December 2012. Pope Benedict "resigned" only 3 months later, in March 2013. Could the Mayan calendar be a predictor of the end of the 5th age of the Church?

6. There is an old Italian prophecy that says "When the White Pope and the Black Pope shall die during the same night then there will dawn for the Christian nations the Great White Day".

a) When is the last time in history that there have lived 2 men who could be referred to as "popes"? Pope Benedict is the white pope because he still wears white and he is referred to as "pope emeritus".

b) Pope Francis is the black pope, because he is the only Jesuit pope in the history of the Church and because the head of the Jesuits was always called the "black pope".

c) If such a prophecy were fulfilled, then would dawn the "great white day". I have no idea what that means, other than to hope that it would mean the election of a saintly pope, which we need very badly.

7. Summary: St Malachy's papal prophecies are for the 5th age of the Church, the one we are living in currently. The time period when it was "discovered" and it's final pope of Pope Benedict (i.e. "glory of the olives") corresponds surprisingly to the time period of the 5th age of the Church (mid 1500s til now). Though St Malachy listed "Peter the Roman" as the last pope, he was referring to the final pope of the world. The Mayan calendar ended in late 2012 and Pope Benedict retired only 3 months later, possibly predicting the end of the 5th age. The old italian prophecy of the white and black popes dying on the same night could happen at any time. Both popes are not in good health and the result would be "the great white day" for christian nations. Could this "great white day" be the election of a saintly pope? Could it be the start of the 6th age, wherein the Great Monarch will rise and battle satan's forces? I don't know, but it's fun to hypothesize and hope.

roscoe · « **Reply #29 on:** January 16, 2016, 11:22:26 AM »

Quote from: Desmond

Quote

1--- Acc to von Pastor, a compromise was reached to settle the schism.
Because there was no heterodoxy, heresy or ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs, it was decided that Catholics are allowed to recognise either the Fr or It Popes of GWS.

Also consult Atwater's Catholic Dictionary. It says the Fr Popes of GWS are 'not anti-popes because of the uncertainty of their status'. :reporter:

OK that most likely means:
That since only one could have been the real Pope, and by necessity, the other claimants had to be Antipopes...

BUT

Since there isn't (or wasn't) absolutely certainty as to which one was the valid Pope above doubt...

THEN

an individual person is/was allowed to regard any (actually Roman or Pisan) as valid.

NOT that the remaining ones weren't antipopes, merely we cannot (couldn't) tell which was which.

Only one Pope can be... Pope at any given time.
And any other claimant has to be considered an Antipope by definition.

By the way, the Liber Pontificalis lists the Roman Line as legitimate, allegedly until some decades ago the Pisan line was listed as valid also, while the Avignonian (French) one never was, so maybe you meant that? Roman or Pisan, not Italian vs French?

However, what I was actually trying to ask you is where does your assertion about Antipopes not being defined by uncanonical/invalid election, but instead by heterodoxy, comes from.

Pls show where I have made the assertion that anti-popes are defined by heterodoxy.... :confused1:

I do not recognise the v2 anti-popes specifically because they are NOT legally elected.

Fr popes of GWS( unlike v2 anti-popes) are NOT anti-popes