No one cane be saved outside the Church?
What is the 1917 CIC? Does it use the words "can be saved outside the Church"?
What are you talking about? Did i say the 1917 code said anything about salvation?
I presented the definition of a heretic from the Code and then presented the dogma and the Athanasian Creed and asked how is believing someone can be saved without knowledge of the Trinity and the Incarnation not doubting the dogma.
This is driving me nuts. I don't know what to believe anymore.
It is a defined dogma that without Faith it is impossible to please God and be justified and yet this whole thing about being saved without Faith is all over the place and the Popes did jack nothing about it...
At the very least one must have supernatural faith in God who both rewards good and punishes evil and have, at the very least an implicit faith in the incarnation and Holy Trinity though explicit faith in these later two may also be necessary. The must have perfect charity, love God above all things, and try to do their best to do His will. The must not willfully reject any truth they become aware of or avoid looking for the truth for fear of having to change their lives or for any other reason. The must die in a state of sanctifying grace and only those within the Church can die in such a state as sanctifying grace cannot be found outside the Church. But non-members of the Church can be within the Church by desire and share the inner bonds of unity within the Church which are supernatural faith, hope and charity and the rest of the virtues and gifts.
God knows the particulars we are just aware of the possibility.
Rest assured of the following.
No one is saved outside the Church.
Non-members can be within the Church by desire even if that desire is implicit. But it has to be an effective desire. They must not only will to do God's will but must also try to do God's will.
One must have a supernatural faith for salvation to be possible.
Additionally one must have supernatural charity for salvation to be possible.
One must believe with a supernatural faith, based on His own Revelation, that God exists and rewards good and punishes evil, and believe, at least implicitly, though possibly explicitly in the Incarnation and the Holy Trinity for salvation to be possible.
They must die in a state of sanctifying grace. This last is not possible without all of the previous.
Non of the above takes into consideration if anyone alive today can be inculpably ignorant of the Catholic Church's necessity for salvation.
If no one alive today can be inculpably ignorant of the Catholic Church's necessity for salvation then everything above does not play a role.
I tend to believe their are sincere good willed non-Catholics who were raised in non-Catholic denominations who believe what they were taught and are not willfully blind and biased against the Church and they cannot be damned for something they are not culpable of.
They are either of good will or not. They are either trying their best to do God's will or not.
But their are numerous prerequisites necessary for it to be possible to die within the Church as a non-member. But this is not something we need to bust our brains over, that is a God thing. We are only responsible for saving ourselves, and our family. We must try to help convert others to the extent possible as well.
But God did not say we must figure which individuals can be saved or not. Not us. Even those in authority can only lay out the basic parameters. That is no one is saved outside the Church and non-members can be saved within the Church. This needs to be understood correctly so as not to reduce the salvation dogma to an empty formula. The salvation dogma is not empty at all. But it is not simplistic either. Their are distinctions to be made but we are not obliged to be high-flying theologians but to be good Catholics. We can study the faith but most of us are not called to clarify the mysteries the most profound theologians had problems with. It all gets sorted out in a perfectly just and merciful way in the end.