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Author Topic: Rome returning to Tradition?  (Read 2147 times)

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Offline IndultCat

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Rome returning to Tradition?
« on: May 08, 2025, 01:05:10 PM »
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    • Is the election of Pope Leo XIV a sign that Rome will FINALLY be returning to the faith? If Leo XIV is just HALF of the pope Leo XIII was, then MAYBE Rome has finally seen the light and will be returning to the TRUE CATHOLIC FAITH in the near future. :incense:
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    Offline Deusvult

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    Re: Rome returning to Tradition?
    « Reply #1 on: May 08, 2025, 01:07:24 PM »
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    • Doubt
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    Offline Michelle

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    Re: Rome returning to Tradition?
    « Reply #2 on: May 08, 2025, 01:11:39 PM »
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    • Quote from: IndultCat on May 08, 2025, 01:05:10 PM
    Is the election of Pope Leo XIV a sign that Rome will FINALLY be returning to the faith? If Leo XIV is just HALF of the pope Leo XIII was, then MAYBE Rome has finally seen the light and will be returning to the TRUE CATHOLIC FAITH in the near future. :incense:
    Or maybe electing a centrist will have the effect of uniting left and right in the Novus Ordo?
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    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Re: Rome returning to Tradition?
    « Reply #3 on: May 08, 2025, 01:25:10 PM »
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    • He's a leftist, not a centrist.
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    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline IndultCat

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    Re: Rome returning to Tradition?
    « Reply #4 on: May 08, 2025, 01:25:26 PM »
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    • Quote from: Michelle on May 08, 2025, 01:11:39 PM
    Or maybe electing a centrist will have the effect of uniting left and right in the Novus Ordo?
    I see people like Bishop Sanborn and Father Jenkins possibly dismantling their organizations, eating a big slice of "humble pie" by admitting they were wrong this entire time, and finally submitting humbly to the hierarchy in Rome while publicly stating "Mea culpa mea culpa mea maxima culpa" with other Sedes imitating them soon after. :popcorn:
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    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: Rome returning to Tradition?
    « Reply #5 on: May 08, 2025, 01:25:42 PM »
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    • The conciliar Pope could always convert, like Viganò did, but I see no indicative that this man is more inclined to it than any other of his predecessors. 

    He even mentioned the synodal church on his speech.:facepalm:
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    Offline Mr G

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    Re: Rome returning to Tradition?
    « Reply #6 on: May 08, 2025, 01:50:51 PM »
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    • Quote from: IndultCat on May 08, 2025, 01:05:10 PM
    Is the election of Pope Leo XIV a sign that Rome will FINALLY be returning to the faith? If Leo XIV is just HALF of the pope Leo XIII was, then MAYBE Rome has finally seen the light and will be returning to the TRUE CATHOLIC FAITH in the near future. :incense:
    Could Cardinal Prevost be the first American pope? - LifeSite

    The big picture: 
    Prevost has cooperated in advancing Francis’ agenda, facilitated the appointment of heterodox bishops throughout the world, and tacitly denied the traditional teaching on the episcopate. 
    Flashpoint: 
    He oversaw the deposition of the most conservative U.S. bishop (Strickland) and the appointment of a notorious liberal to one of the most prominent diocesan see (McElroy).   
    Takeaway: 
    Prevost has remained silent in the face of the great doctrinal questions of our day, and facilitated the longest-lasting legacy of Francis’ reign. 

    See link for the rest of the article 
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    Offline Mr G

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    Re: Rome returning to Tradition?
    « Reply #7 on: May 08, 2025, 01:52:49 PM »
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    • Could Cardinal Prevost be the first American pope? - LifeSite

    Conclusion: Can Prevost be elected?
    The Catholic Church teaches that any candidate for the papacy (or any other office) must be:
    • Male
    • In possession of the use of reason
    • A member of the Catholic Church
    Regarding the third criterion, the Church also teaches that her members are only those who (a) are validly baptized, (b) publicly profess the Catholic faith, and (c) are united to the body and subject to the legitimate hierarchy. 
    In this piece, we have seen that Prevost has:

    • Conspicuously failed to profess the faith in relation to the grave threats to faith and morals in our day—to the point in which this silence is taken as “discretion” and counted in his favor as a candidate
    • Indicated the state of his mind through his cooperation with the appointment of notorious liberals and the deposition of conservatives
    • Cooperated in the consolidation of Francis’ longest-lasting legacy, namely the appointment of bishops embodying his ideals
    • Implicitly denied the dogma of the Church’s visible unity, by casting it in the terms rejected and refuted by Pope Pius XI in Mortalium Animos
    • Minimized the importance of doctrine in the role of the bishop, contrary to Sacred Scripture, Apostolic Tradition and the general sense of theology
    • Dismissed those who “prefer the security of answers already experienced in the past”
    • Promoted the modernist idea of “synodality” in such a way as to destroy the traditional concept of the bishop’s threefold power of teaching, ruling and sanctifying his flock
    • Explicitly denied that a bishop is a “prince” in his diocese, contrary to the teaching of the magisterium and the liturgy
    • Replaced the traditional understanding of the bishop’s role with that of “service,” presented in naturalistic terms, and which he has already separated from doctrine and governance through his other words (even while he retains references to teaching and shepherding).
    If we were limited to the matter of his silence, we might be able to excuse Prevost on the grounds of cowardice or tactical cunning—neither of which present him as a good
     candidate for the papacy. The Church does not need cowards or tacticians: she needs men who take seriously the words of St. Paul to the Galatians: 


    Quote
    But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema.
    As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema.
    For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? If I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. (Gal. 1.8-10)
    She needs bishops who will boldly obey the exhortation of St Paul to Timothy: 

    Quote
    I charge thee, before God and Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead, by his coming and his kingdom:
    Preach the word: be instant in season, out of season: reprove, entreat, rebuke in all patience and doctrine.
    For there shall be a time when they will not endure sound doctrine but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables.
    But be thou vigilant, labour in all things, do the work of an evangelist, fulfil thy ministry. (2 Timothy 4.1-5)
    A man who has remained “discreet” during the last few years—and indeed been promoted in that time—seems unlikely to be suitable. 
    However, the wider points discussed in this article—doctrinal deviations which become clear after a careful consideration of his role as Prefect for the Dicastery of Bishops—are both cause for alarm in themselves, and as shedding light on his silence. They indicate that Prevost is not a coward or a tactician, but a loyal son of Francis, and that he will continue the work of his master and benefactor, if he is elected—even if he does so in a more discreet and moderate way. 

    This raises grave questions about whether or not Prevost can be said to profess the Catholic faith at all, and thus whether he is a member of the Church. If he is not a member of the Church, then it is not possible for him to be validly elected as pope. 

    At the very least, there is serious doubt on the matter: and a man whose visible membership in the Church is itself in serious doubt can only be doubtfully elected to the papacy, even if the conclave is unanimous. Should such a man be elected, the resulting doubt would not be about his popularity or policies, but about his very authority. This is why great theologians and canonists held that a doubtful pope is no pope at all.

    Needless to say, these points have implications that extend beyond just Prevost, applying also to those other cardinals who have been “discreet” and “moderate” in the face of Francis’ doctrinal aberrations. It is not enough to ask whether a man is prudent, discreet, or personally sincere. The question is whether he professes the faith whole and entire, in public and without compromise. If the answer is not a clear “Yes,” then the conclusion is clear: he cannot be validly elected or accepted as pope.


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    Offline Michelle

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    Re: Rome returning to Tradition?
    « Reply #8 on: May 08, 2025, 02:30:58 PM »
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    • Quote from: IndultCat on May 08, 2025, 01:25:26 PM
    I see people like Bishop Sanborn and Father Jenkins possibly dismantling their organizations, eating a big slice of "humble pie" by admitting they were wrong this entire time, and finally submitting humbly to the hierarchy in Rome while publicly stating "Mea culpa mea culpa mea maxima culpa" with other Sedes imitating them soon after. :popcorn:
    No.  I do not see the Sedevacantes embracing him but conservatives like the Remnant, Lifesite News, Indult and closer union with SSPX.  Maybe, only time will tell especially when we learn more.
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    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Rome returning to Tradition?
    « Reply #9 on: May 08, 2025, 02:38:46 PM »
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    • Quote from: Michelle on May 08, 2025, 02:30:58 PM
    No.  I do not see the Sedevacantes embracing him but conservatives like the Remnant, Lifesite News, Indult and closer union with SSPX.  Maybe, only time will tell especially when we learn more.

    Depends upon how much encouragement he gives them.

    Right now, it's all up in the air.
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    Offline Mr G

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    Re: Rome returning to Tradition?
    « Reply #10 on: May 08, 2025, 02:40:26 PM »
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    • Quote from: Michelle on May 08, 2025, 02:30:58 PM
    No.  I do not see the Sedevacantes embracing him but conservatives like the Remnant, Lifesite News, Indult and closer union with SSPX.  Maybe, only time will tell especially when we learn more.
    Are you sure about LifeSite accepting him, after all they allowed for the article listed above your post, which states:

    "This raises grave questions about whether or not Prevost can be said to profess the Catholic faith at all, and thus whether he is a member of the Church. If he is not a member of the Church, then it is not possible for him to be validly elected as pope. "
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    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: Rome returning to Tradition?
    « Reply #11 on: May 08, 2025, 02:59:03 PM »
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    • Would like to hear Vigano's assessment.
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    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Rome returning to Tradition?
    « Reply #12 on: May 08, 2025, 03:00:29 PM »
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    • As others put it, this guy is absolutely not a "centrist".  He's been one of the biggest promoters of the whole "Synodal Church" concept.  That was the perception because he never talked much publicly, but what he did as far Leftist and Bergs wouldn't have trusted him to select bishops if he weren't in lockstep.  He presided over ousting Strickland.

    Despite that, I reject this very conversation.  Unless someone recognizes that Vatican II was not a Council, declares it null, declares Roncalli and the rest Antipopes, declares the NOM null and void ... Right, Left, Centrist yada yada yada is just bovine excrement.

    There's only Catholic and Modernist, and he's a Modernist.

    Yet another Antipope, as predicted (given that I expect 2029 to be when things start to get really bad and then turn around with the Holy Pope ... hint:  this guy ain't it).
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Rome returning to Tradition?
    « Reply #13 on: May 08, 2025, 03:00:58 PM »
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    • Quote from: Miseremini on May 08, 2025, 02:59:03 PM
    Would like to hear Vigano's assessment.

    Good point.  +Vigano probably knew this guy well.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Rome returning to Tradition?
    « Reply #14 on: May 08, 2025, 03:01:46 PM »
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    • Quote from: IndultCat on May 08, 2025, 01:25:26 PM
    I see people like Bishop Sanborn and Father Jenkins possibly dismantling their organizations, eating a big slice of "humble pie" by admitting they were wrong this entire time, and finally submitting humbly to the hierarchy in Rome while publicly stating "Mea culpa mea culpa mea maxima culpa" with other Sedes imitating them soon after. :popcorn:

    Someone please ban this pernicious apostate ^^^ already.
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