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Author Topic: Is this the final straw or the first of a camel load of back-breakers?  (Read 1967 times)

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Offline Lighthouse

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Nobody apparently prepared to verify this right now. So, again, the man has some "splaning" to do.


Whoa


Offline holysoulsacademy

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Is this the final straw or the first of a camel load of back-breakers?
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2014, 02:20:00 PM »
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  • Quote from: Lighthouse
    Nobody apparently prepared to verify this right now. So, again, the man has some "splaning" to do.


    Whoa


    Pope Francis "tells 'sinner' she should be allowed Communion"
    In what would be a break from Catholic teaching, Pope said to have phoned remarried Argentine woman Jacqui Lisbona telling her 'nothing wrong' in her taking Holy Communion.

    By Nick Squires, Vatican City

    1:40PM BST 23 Apr 2014

    Pope Francis reportedly told a woman “living in sin” with a divorcee that she is free to take Holy Communion, in what appears to be a significant departure from Catholic teaching.

    Jacqui Lisbona, who is from the Pope’s homeland of Argentina, wrote to the Jesuit pontiff to tell him that she had been refused Communion by her local priest, who objected to the fact that she was married to a previously divorced man.

    Prohibited from marrying in church, they had instead opted for a civil ceremony.

    “[The priest] told me that every time I went home, I was going back to living in sin,” she said.

    In her letter, Mrs Lisbona, who has two teenage daughters with her current husband after 19 years of marriage, said she was worried that if she did take Communion – perhaps in a church where she was not known to the priest - she would be “violating Church rules”.

    The Pope, who since being elected 13 months ago has established a reputation for phoning ordinary Catholics out of the blue in response to letters they have sent, called her at her home in the central region of Santa Fe on Easter Monday.

    He reportedly told her: “A divorcee who takes communion is not doing anything wrong.”

    In a rebuke to the local priest who refused her the Sacrament, he added: “There are some priests who are more papist than the Pope.”

    When asked whether the remarks attributed to the Pope were correct, a Vatican spokesman told The Telegraph: “We would neither confirm nor deny that - this was a private telephone call made by the Holy Father and we would not divulge the details.”

    But the reported remarks were in line with the position taken by Pope Francis in recent months – that the Church should treat divorcees and their partners with more compassion.

    The remarks may indicate that the Pope, who has struck a much more inclusive tone than his predecessor, Benedict XVI, on issues ranging from ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity to same-sex unions, is testing the water with the intention of changing the Church’s position.

    The surprising exchange was first revealed by Mrs Lisbona’s husband, Julio Sabetta, who said he first answered the call from the Pope, before handing the phone to his wife.

    “One of the most wonderful things in my life has just happened – receiving a telephone call from none other than Papa Francesco,” he wrote on his Facebook page.

    “We’re Catholics, we believe in God, and though we don’t go to Mass every Sunday, every evening we thank the Lord for our family and our work,” Mr Sabetta, a pastry chef, said.

    The phone call from the Pope came six months after Mrs Lisbona sent her letter to him. Introducing himself as “Father Bergoglio” – his given name is Jorge Mario Bergoglio – the South American pontiff said he was sorry it had taken him so long to make the call.

    “It is an issue we are discussing in the Vatican, because a divorcee who takes communion is not doing anything wrong,” the Pope reportedly said during a conversation lasting 10 minutes.

    The Catholic Church currently maintains that unless a first marriage is annulled, Catholics who remarry cannot receive Communion because they are essentially living in sin and committing adultery.

    Such annulments are often impossible to obtain, or can take years to process, a problem that has left many Catholics feeling rejected by the Church.

    Since being elected in March last year, Pope Francis has on several occasions called for a more merciful approach to the problem.

    In February he said divorced and separated couples should not be excluded from Church activities, in remarks which also raised speculation that he may one day lift the ban on divorcees receiving Communion.

    He told a group of Polish bishops that priests should “ask themselves how to help (divorced couples), so that they don't feel excluded from the mercy of God, the fraternal love of other Christians, and the Church's concern for their salvation.”

    He has also called on the Church hierarchy to re-evaluate the way that priests and bishops can engage with the children of same-sex couples and divorcees, urging them to "consider how to proclaim Jesus Christ to a generation that is changing".

    The push for a more inclusive approach towards divorced Catholics has been led by Cardinal Walter Kasper, a German theologian, who has called for "openings and changes" in how the Church confronts the issue.


    Offline Charlemagne

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    Is this the final straw or the first of a camel load of back-breakers?
    « Reply #2 on: April 23, 2014, 02:29:33 PM »
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  • I'll be as shocked if he didn't actually tell her this as I would be if St. Pius X had told her this.
    "This principle is most certain: The non-Christian cannot in any way be Pope. The reason for this is that he cannot be head of what he is not a member. Now, he who is not a Christian is not a member of the Church, and a manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Augustine, St. Jerome, and others. Therefore, the manifest heretic cannot be Pope." -- St. Robert Bellarmine

    Offline Mama ChaCha

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    Is this the final straw or the first of a camel load of back-breakers?
    « Reply #3 on: April 23, 2014, 03:16:49 PM »
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  •  :facepalm:
    Matthew 6:34
    " Be not therefore solicitous for to morrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof."

    Offline Matto

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    Is this the final straw or the first of a camel load of back-breakers?
    « Reply #4 on: April 23, 2014, 03:20:40 PM »
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  • I believe that nearly all Novus Ordo communions are sacrileges anyway (if the Novusa Ordo sacrament is valid) so this doesn't change much.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.


    Offline soulguard

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    Is this the final straw or the first of a camel load of back-breakers?
    « Reply #5 on: April 23, 2014, 03:25:00 PM »
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  • If Francis is a freemason does that invalidate his election as pope?

    Maybe someone can provide a yes or no before everyone moves on with this thread.

    Only a freemason would act like this.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Is this the final straw or the first of a camel load of back-breakers?
    « Reply #6 on: April 23, 2014, 03:25:08 PM »
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  • I wonder if he could call me to tell me it's OK to be a sedevacantist and consider him a heretic.  I should write him a letter and send him my phone number.  He can call collect so as to save the money for the poor.

    Offline TKGS

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    Is this the final straw or the first of a camel load of back-breakers?
    « Reply #7 on: April 23, 2014, 03:36:24 PM »
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  • It is true that this is not verifiable unless the Vatican confirms that it happened.  I propose that we wait until the October meeting and see what the bishops and cardinals at the Vatican come out with concerning divorce and remarriage and see what Bergoglio does with the docuмent.  That will either confirm or refute this story (that is, if the issue is brought up in October) in its fundamentals.

    However, given what I've been reading on this forum of late, I don't think that there is a straw that can break the camel's back in regards to many individuals whose first and foremost dogma is against the sedevacantist.


    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Is this the final straw or the first of a camel load of back-breakers?
    « Reply #8 on: April 23, 2014, 03:39:09 PM »
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  • If this is true, I may honestly go sede. True Popes don't actively seek to destroy and impugn marriage in the Church.
    Remember O most gracious Virgin Mary...

    Offline Mabel

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    Is this the final straw or the first of a camel load of back-breakers?
    « Reply #9 on: April 23, 2014, 03:54:34 PM »
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  • Someone added me to a Novus Ordo group, not knowing my "secret." After reading the group for awhile, I've come to understand that opening up communion to unrepentant public sinners is going to be very popular, it is almost expected to happen very soon. Their diocesan priests expect it, and it appears to be a way that they are luring in converts.

    I don't see any denial of the event taking place but I don't think there will be an affirmation until they have given it the guise of study and maybe a 700 page docuмent quoting everything under the sun since 1965. It will also be well-timed so that the world can love the Concilliar religion all the more.

    Stories like these will help condition the more conservative Concilliar adherents for acceptance of Bergoglio's novelties.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Is this the final straw or the first of a camel load of back-breakers?
    « Reply #10 on: April 23, 2014, 04:31:55 PM »
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  • Quote from: TKGS
    It is true that this is not verifiable unless the Vatican confirms that it happened.  I propose that we wait until the October meeting and see what the bishops and cardinals at the Vatican come out with concerning divorce and remarriage and see what Bergoglio does with the docuмent.  That will either confirm or refute this story (that is, if the issue is brought up in October) in its fundamentals.

    However, given what I've been reading on this forum of late, I don't think that there is a straw that can break the camel's back in regards to many individuals whose first and foremost dogma is against the sedevacantist.


    True that.
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Is this the final straw or the first of a camel load of back-breakers?
    « Reply #11 on: April 23, 2014, 04:34:37 PM »
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  • Quote from: Mabel
    Someone added me to a Novus Ordo group, not knowing my "secret." After reading the group for awhile, I've come to understand that opening up communion to unrepentant public sinners is going to be very popular, it is almost expected to happen very soon. Their diocesan priests expect it, and it appears to be a way that they are luring in converts.

    I don't see any denial of the event taking place but I don't think there will be an affirmation until they have given it the guise of study and maybe a 700 page docuмent quoting everything under the sun since 1965. It will also be well-timed so that the world can love the Concilliar religion all the more.

    Stories like these will help condition the more conservative Concilliar adherents for acceptance of Bergoglio's novelties.


    The more I watch things, the more I think everything Francis does is about filling the coffers.
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Mabel

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    Is this the final straw or the first of a camel load of back-breakers?
    « Reply #12 on: April 23, 2014, 05:02:28 PM »
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  • Quote from: 2Vermont
    Quote from: Mabel
    Someone added me to a Novus Ordo group, not knowing my "secret." After reading the group for awhile, I've come to understand that opening up communion to unrepentant public sinners is going to be very popular, it is almost expected to happen very soon. Their diocesan priests expect it, and it appears to be a way that they are luring in converts.

    I don't see any denial of the event taking place but I don't think there will be an affirmation until they have given it the guise of study and maybe a 700 page docuмent quoting everything under the sun since 1965. It will also be well-timed so that the world can love the Concilliar religion all the more.

    Stories like these will help condition the more conservative Concilliar adherents for acceptance of Bergoglio's novelties.


    The more I watch things, the more I think everything Francis does is about filling the coffers.


    It certainly isn't about saving souls.

    Offline Lighthouse

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    Is this the final straw or the first of a camel load of back-breakers?
    « Reply #13 on: April 23, 2014, 05:08:35 PM »
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  • Well, if anything we should pray for the lady's priest who insisted on correct doctrine.  

    Does it qualify one as a martyr when one is stabbed in the back  by his boss?

    Offline JoeZ

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    Is this the final straw or the first of a camel load of back-breakers?
    « Reply #14 on: April 23, 2014, 08:55:37 PM »
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  • Quote
    In a rebuke to the local priest who refused her the Sacrament, he added: “There are some priests who are more papist than the Pope.”


    If I may,

    Was a rebuke sent to the priest in question? If yes then he can verify the story as true and might not anymore deny her communion. If no, then Francis accomplished nothing as the priest must still deny her communion.

    God bless,
    JoeZ
    Pray the Holy Rosary.