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Author Topic: Is there a One Ring in Tradition, to rule them all?  (Read 30033 times)

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Offline Praeter

Re: Is there a One Ring in Tradition, to rule them all?
« Reply #80 on: September 02, 2019, 01:09:18 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on September 02, 2019, 11:15:15 AM
I just laid this out, idiot.  You rely on the fact that not everything the Pope teaches or institutes is infallible ... and stretch this to the limits of credibility ... and beyond.

Vatican I defined that the pope speaks infallibly when he defines a doctrine, ex cathedra. That's it.  It never said a pope is unable to err when he does not meet the precise conditions contained in the dogmatic definition.  If you accepted the dogma as it is defined, you wouldn't have nearly as much trouble finding a "solution" to the problem in the Church.
 
But according to Pope Ladislaus, the Church's definition unduly restricts the infallibility of the pope "to the limits of credibility and beyond," so you came up with your own version of the doctrine.  What harm could possibly come from that?

Certainly, no one can force you to accept the Church's dogma of papal infallibility, but don't be surprised if persistent adherence to your more "credible" version prevents you from finding a solution to the problem in the Church.  
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Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Is there a One Ring in Tradition, to rule them all?
« Reply #81 on: September 02, 2019, 02:14:27 PM »
Quote from: forlorn on September 02, 2019, 12:25:11 PM
R&Rism presents you with a hierarchy that has abandoned their mission and been corrupted, again spare a few scattered bishops and priests. I don't think either position can explain the situation we're in without violating indefectibility. I think there is an explanation for it all somewhere out there, that maybe God will reveal to us when time comes, but for now I haven't found one that explains it all without issue or contraction.

THIS ^^^
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Offline Admin

  • Mod
Re: Is there a One Ring in Tradition, to rule them all?
« Reply #82 on: September 02, 2019, 03:23:25 PM »
1. I see the debaters in this thread (about specifics of the Crisis) aren't ready to concede to the other side.

2. Further, each of these sides has thousands of other Catholics backing up every word that was posted in these arguments.

3. There are only 3 possible conclusions:
A) There is no One Ring in play yet, i.e., a compelling argument which forces all Catholics of good will to join a single side, united under a single banner (an individual with authority, or the one wielding the One Ring)
B) The One Ring has been wielded in this thread, but all the thousands of Catholics faced with it have chosen rather to kill themselves (go into mortal sin, become bad-willed, willfully rejecting the truth) than to obey its command.
C) The One Ring has been wielded in this thread, but all the thousands of Catholics faced with it have an IQ of 70 or less, literally retarded, and so they can't mentally grasp the logic and arguments. Therefore they aren't compelled by the Ring, neither are they forced into mortal sin or a state of bad will (willful rejection of the truth).

Again, the arguing in this thread is evidence that no one has a compelling argument that answers ALL objections. The One Ring is still hidden and waiting to be given to us or found, with God's help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=103&v=TrJJ6ncp1fc
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Offline JezusDeKoning

Re: Is there a One Ring in Tradition, to rule them all?
« Reply #83 on: September 02, 2019, 03:51:15 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on September 02, 2019, 02:14:27 PM
THIS ^^^
This is the answer, or closest thing to an answer in regards to the Crisis that I've found. 
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Offline Praeter

Re: Is there a One Ring in Tradition, to rule them all?
« Reply #84 on: September 02, 2019, 07:26:21 PM »
Quote from: Admin on September 02, 2019, 03:23:25 PM
1. I see the debaters in this thread (about specifics of the Crisis) aren't ready to concede to the other side.

2. Further, each of these sides has thousands of other Catholics backing up every word that was posted in these arguments.

3. There are only 3 possible conclusions:
A) There is no One Ring in play yet, i.e., a compelling argument which forces all Catholics of good will to join a single side, united under a single banner (an individual with authority, or the one wielding the One Ring)
B) The One Ring has been wielded in this thread, but all the thousands of Catholics faced with it have chosen rather to kill themselves (go into mortal sin, become bad-willed, willfully rejecting the truth) than to obey its command.
C) The One Ring has been wielded in this thread, but all the thousands of Catholics faced with it have an IQ of 70 or less, literally retarded, and so they can't mentally grasp the logic and arguments. Therefore they aren't compelled by the Ring, neither are they forced into mortal sin or a state of bad will (willful rejection of the truth).

Again, the arguing in this thread is evidence that no one has a compelling argument that answers ALL objections. The One Ring is still hidden and waiting to be given to us or found, with God's help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=103&v=TrJJ6ncp1fc
Another factor to consider is that each Catholic is viewing the crisis through their own lens, and seeking to understand it in light of the doctrinal beliefs they hold, and the personal opinions/conclusions they have drawn.  
 
If someone believes conciliar infallibility guarantees that a council cannot teach error, or that everything a pope promulgates authoritatively will necessarily be infallible, these doctrinal errors will have a profound effect on which of the differing explanations they accept, or at least which ones they will rule out.  So too will their opinion about the validity of the new rite of episcopal consecration, and dozens of other issues.
 
Their judgment about the severity of the crisis is another factor.  Is Vatican II "full of heresies", and does it teach an entirely different religion, or does it merely contain theological errors, ambiguities, and time bombs, which have been exploited by the Modernists and used by them to spread their false religious system within the walls of Holy Mother Church?  The former is objectively far worse than the latter.  Is the New Mass, as published by Paul VI, an invalid, blasphemous, sacrilege, or is it a valid Mass with a watered-down liturgy and ambiguous prayers, which has been made far worse by the indults, innovations, and abuses that have accompanied it?  Has the entire hierarchy apostatized (Forlorn), or are the bishops more or less infected by the modern errors (Pax Vobis); has the Church completely abandoned the mission entrusted to it by Christ (Forlorn), or are most of the bishops just failing in their duty to carry it out (Praeter)? 
 
 
Since all these individual judgments, personal opinions, and doctrinal beliefs, have an effect on which "solution" people will embrace, it’s not reasonable to expect that One Ring will convince everyone.  
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