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Author Topic: Is the Novus Ordo English Mass valid and does it impart grace?  (Read 14631 times)

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Re: Is the Novus Ordo English Mass valid and does it impart grace?
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2018, 01:13:56 PM »
For anyone who is interested, this is a short critical exam of the Novus Ordo Missae by Msg. Guerard des Lauriers.


Re: Is the Novus Ordo English Mass valid and does it impart grace?
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2018, 02:55:56 PM »
Add to the uncertainty of the Novus Ordo that they also changed the ordination rite and the formula for the consecration of bishops, and you have three strikes and you are out. 


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Is the Novus Ordo English Mass valid and does it impart grace?
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2018, 03:32:11 PM »
For anyone who is interested, this is a short critical exam of the Novus Ordo Missae by Msg. Guerard des Lauriers.

He was a brilliant theologian.

here's a key passage:
Quote
All this, in short, changes the modus significandi of the words of Consecration–how they show forth the sacramental action taking place. The priest now pronounces the formulas for Consecration as part of an historical narrative, rather than as Christ’s representative issuing the affirmative judgment “This is My Body.”

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Is the Novus Ordo English Mass valid and does it impart grace?
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2018, 03:37:10 PM »
Add to the uncertainty of the Novus Ordo that they also changed the ordination rite and the formula for the consecration of bishops, and you have three strikes and you are out.

Yep ... three layers of positive doubt.  Very interestingly, they changed the invalidating words of consecration "for you and for all" back now to the correct translation "for you and for many" in the vernacular ... now that nearly all of the priests ordained in the Traditional Rite are retired or have passed away.

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Is the Novus Ordo English Mass valid and does it impart grace?
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2018, 04:13:22 PM »
The consecration of the wine's formula is still wrong, with the phrase "mystery of faith" moved and added after the consecration is over.  There was already an ecuмenical council which declared the words required for the consecration of the wine.  So this change adds another doubt and is probably invalid.

Added to that the fact that 70% of the offertory prayers were deleted and the most of the canon/communion prayers deleted/edited.  This is a further invalidating aspect of the mass, since the Offertory is a PRINCIPLE part of the mass, which affects the purpose of the offering.  If the consecration is performed validly, but the offertory is so edited that the purpose is 1) not to offer the consecration for the satisfaction of sins, or 2) a sacrifice to God in adoration of His glory, or 3) for contrition for sins, then the PURPOSE of the mass is not catholic, it's not a prayer, it's not what Christ offered at Calvary...ergo, it's not a mass.

The offertory (and the canon prayers) are more important than most think.