Author Topic: Is the CMRI schismatic? (Read 64282 times)

Stubborn · « **Reply #95 on:** November 28, 2014, 11:39:35 AM »

Quote from: Nado

Quote from: Stubborn
Quote from: Nado

Stubborn Feeneyite, as usual. The Haydock commentary you gave doesn't exclude dispensation for a changing circuмstance. As well as you violating approved Catholics works. Notice that you cannot even answer about slavery, which proves my point.

The incest mention was an analogy, it wasn't a premise. That can disappear and my argument about epikeia still stands, which you clearly won't touch with a ten foot pole.

Ignorant Cushingite suffering from the syndrome of sedevacantism.

How many years did you spend in the NO? My guess is you spent your whole life minus about the last few months in there.

You have not offered a single solitary bit of proof to defend whatever it is that you are supporting - do you even know what it is that you are supporting or what it is that you are defending?

The only thing you've demonstrated to this point is that you are of the opinion that schism can be good and lawful under certain circuмstances - which is not something Catholics believe, but it certainly agrees with what schismatics believe.

No answer on slavery and the New Testament?

No answer on epikeia?

I thought as much.

No reply to the original post with something of substance?

Not surprising.

How many years did you spend in the NO? My guess is you spent your whole life minus about the last few months in there.

You have not offered a single solitary bit of proof to defend whatever it is that you are supporting - do you even know what it is that you are supporting or what it is that you are defending?

Stubborn · « **Reply #96 on:** November 28, 2014, 01:40:28 PM »

I'm done going around in circles with you. When you want to dispute the evidence with something other than your opinion which only attempts to justify schism, I'll reply.

Stubborn · « **Reply #97 on:** November 28, 2014, 01:55:19 PM »

Stubborn · « **Reply #98 on:** December 03, 2014, 04:11:24 AM »

Quote from: ascent

Quote from: ascent
CMRI is pure cane Catholic. Period. End of debate. I'm not CMRI, but if there was a chapel close to where I live, then I'd most certainly assist at their Mass.

Look, buddy, the bottom line is this: if a Catholic has a CMRI chapel within an hour's commute - or the other option is to stay home like a dogmatic cultist schizoid, or go to a novus queerdo chapel - then his soul will be in far better shape through the graces bestowed upon him by assisting a true Catholic Mass and receiving the Sacraments. Otherwise, he would be committing mortal sin by staying home when he could be at a Catholic Mass, or committing sin attending a sacrilegious, calvinist, masonic service known as the "mass of Paul VI". CMRI are valid and Catholic. There is no evidence in their history to the contrary. That is the work of jewry and their General - Satan - who work to divide real Catholics an attack the true Faith.

Quote from: ascent

Post

You seriously misunderstand or, perhaps, avoid the point I'm making. The point is the religious communities from SSPX, et al, are organic, hence their founder(s) has an actual lineage to a member of the Church who was consecrated in the Holy Orders. This makes these religious communities far more real than the Dimond brothers' monastery, which is not organic and is 100% lay founded, hence lacking any authenticity. Their monastery is no different than some bozo waking up tomorrow morning and allotting his barn and land for a few lay people to start their "monastery" while they call themselves "monks" and "brothers". Moreover, your argument about jurisdiction, which is beside the point, has little merit because Catholic means "universal", therefore in this Crisis of the (universal) Church, a valid clergy has jurisdiction everywhere, and at any time, to minister to the flock, despite not being granted regular faculties, nor jurisdiction, by heretical / apostate Rome.

Ascent states the issue about as well as it can be stated.

In his post against the Dimond fools, ascent describes some of the facts of the CMRI, namely;

*1) they are not organic, they cannot trace their lineage back to a member of the Church who was consecrated in the Holy Orders,
*2) the CMRI is not organic because it is 100% lay founded, hence lacking any authenticity and
*3) their monastery is no different than some bozo waking up tomorrow morning and allotting his barn and land for a few lay people to start their "monastery" while they call themselves "monks" and "brothers" and "priests".

1) They trace their lineage back to Bishop Francis Schuckardt who was ordained and consecrated in 1971 by Old Catholic Bishop Daniel Q. Brown, who traces his lineage back to Old Catholic Bishop, Arnold hαɾɾιs Mathew whom Pope Pius X himself excommunicated.

2) CMRI was founded in 1967 by lay man Francis Schuckardt. The CMRI officially trace their lineage back to this lay man.

3) The difference here is that "some bozo" woke up one morning and ended up buying authentic Catholic buildings with all the authentic statues and furnishings and started a community - but he took it a few steps further by hooking up with and getting ordained and consecrated by a schismatic bishop, then called that community "Catholic".

The above are historical facts which are indisputable.

Cantarella · « **Reply #99 on:** December 03, 2014, 11:28:57 AM »

Quote from: Nado

You have been presented with the principle of epikeia in Catholicism, where in an emergency one can receive a necessary Sacrament from a non-Catholic within being accused of being non-Catholic. You avoided that from the start, because it gives the lie to what you are writing here.

You are wrong here again Nado. The concept of "Epikeia" which is found in canon 209 provides jurisdiction in cases of common error or doubt for the benefit of the faithful, in cases where it is missing. There are certain explicit requirements though. What is important to remember here is that it can ONLY apply to Human Law, never Divine Law. Epikeia is not applicable to those laws whose universal observance is demanded. So no, it does not give you a "convenient excuse" to receive the Sacraments from schismatics or abuse it to supersede laws or grant power of jurisdiction to those who have none or open new sects such as CMRI like Protestants do. This is not a free pass to do whatever you want with the Law or how the Catholic Church is instituted and cannot be a justification for schismatics.

First of all, Epikeia "does not render an incompetent agent habitually competent". Thus for example, an invalidly elected bishop will never be the true bishop unless and until he is elected in the proper manner or has the matter sanated by the Holy See.

Secondly, the Church supplies only those things which are pertinent to the state and conditions of persons. It is actually used in extremely rare cases.