Quote from: Cantarella

Quote from: Nado

An analogous situation is this: the moral theologians teach that incest is a mortal sin. Yet they teach that in a circuмstance where the human race is facing extinction, it would be good and lawful for brother and sister to get married and have children. Now, it is certainly difficult in such a case to truly know whether the human race, world-wide, is truly facing extinction, and if a mistake is made, the Church is as merciful as Our Lord is. Jansenists and Pharisee-types would have no mercy and condemn the mistake with the most rigorous charge possible by quoting books about the horror and grievousness of incest.

This is what happens when yet another barely literate sedevacantist has an internet connection.

So enlighten us Nado, who exactly are the Catholic moral theologians that justify incest?

Must say, though that Nado has become a very entertaining poster. Have to give her that!. Her utter ignorance combined with an innate inability to stop sprouting imprudent non sense are very comical. She just does not know when to stop! It surely keeps the threads alive.

Do you believe in Adam and Eve? If so, how do you think the world was populated?

Also, why do think that Nado is female?

Is that you, Vermont?  

:read-paper:

Quote from: Stubborn

Quote from: Nado

Quote from: Stubborn

Quote from: Nado

Okay, so you say Schuckardt was schismatic because of his ordination/consecration, and that it extended to Fr. Chicoine for attempting to be ordained by the same man.

Do you extend being schismatic to the others who approved and participated? Why, or why not?

Schuckardt was certainly in schism because first, he left the Church - second, after he left the Church, he then started his own "Religious Community" as the CMRI website describes it.

Schuckardt, who already started his Religious Community, started to grow his Religious Community after he was ordained and consecrated by a schismatic bishop (Daniel Brown) whose episcopal lineage is traced back to a bishop that was excommunicated by Pope Pius X himself. Correct me if I'm wrong but that being the case, everyone that is ordained/consecrated from that entire lineage is also excommunicated, therefore in schism.

There is a lot more to it, but no sense in proceeding any further until the above is understood.

 

Receiving a valid sacrament from a non-Catholic is normally sinful by ecclesiastical law, unless there is a proportionately good reason in an extraordinary circuмstance, then it becomes necessary and good. It is by the virtue of epikeia that the letter of law can be broken to maintain the essential spirit of the law. The most prominent example is baptism, and the next most common is confession (in danger of death).

In an extreme situation where the validity of the priesthood is stake, and thus a threat of extinction of the Sacraments, the priesthood can likewise be conferred by a non-Catholic. This is what the CMRI did with Brown. It was merely for the Sacraments and had nothing to do with approval of the Old Catholics and their tenets. Mistaken or not, the attempt had the color of legitimacy in this unprecedented, virtually unforeseen crisis. A mistake in such an extraordinary circuмstance doesn't equal schism.

An analogous situation is this: the moral theologians teach that incest is a mortal sin. Yet they teach that in a circuмstance where the human race is facing extinction, it would be good and lawful for brother and sister to get married and have children. Now, it is certainly difficult in such a case to truly know whether the human race, world-wide, is truly facing extinction, and if a mistake is made, the Church is as merciful as Our Lord is. Jansenists and Pharisee-types would have no mercy and condemn the mistake with the most rigorous charge possible by quoting books about the horror and grievousness of incest.

I don't know where to even start with this. This is tragically sad.

Have you ever heard the old saying: Two wrongs don't make a right?

Once again, I offer historical facts, you offer your opinion, which is so perverted I find myself in awe. What you base your opinion on God only knows, whatever you base your opinion on is certainly not Catholic.
 
FYI, since the time that Our Lord instituted of the Sacrament of Matrimony, and even before that in the Old Testament, the sin of incest will  never be good and lawful - never. Here, start at verse 6.

Whatever im"moral theologians" you follow, run, don't walk away from them.

 

Your ignorance is what is sad, and it is thwarting your advancement. You don't know where to start because of the depth of your ignorance.

The whole human race was founded on siblings marrying each other. That is how Adam and Eve became grandparents.

Oops, sorry nado.  You already pointed out Adam and Eve.

Do you believe in Adam and Eve? If so, how do you think the world was populated?

Also, why do think that Nado is female?

Unreal.

God permitted it in order to populate the world from one man and one woman.

After God decided there was no longer any need for that, he put an end to it and declared incest a grievous sin.

Now you would would be so bold as to have God accept a terrible sin for the sake of repopulating the earth?  Well, I suppose that when it comes right down to it, that makes just as much sense as making an abjuration just in case you really ever were in error , then deciding on your own that your sin of schism is forgiven, then call yourself Catholic, start a community and seminary, ordain priests and bishops, and have them call themselves Catholic - and see how many other fools you can get to not only go along with you, but also to defend and do your recruiting for you.

  <---- should be 10x bigger

Quote from: 2Vermont

Do you believe in Adam and Eve? If so, how do you think the world was populated?

Also, why do think that Nado is female?

Unreal.

God permitted it in order to populate the world from one man and one woman.

After God decided there was no longer any need for that, he put an end to it and declared incest a grievous sin.

Now you would would be so bold as to have God accept a terrible sin for the sake of repopulating the earth?  Well, I suppose that when it comes right down to it, that makes just as much sense as making an abjuration just in case you really ever were in error , then deciding on your own that your sin of schism is forgiven, then call yourself Catholic, start a community and seminary, ordain priests and bishops, and have them call themselves Catholic - and see how many other fools you can get to not only go along with you, but also to defend and do your recruiting for you.

  <---- should be 10x bigger

Actually, if the world came down to one man and one woman again, who are you to decide that God would not find the need again?


 

Haydock commentary; Gen 4:17 His wife. She was a daughter of Adam, and Cain's own sister; God dispensing with such marriages in the beginning of the world, as mankind could not otherwise be propagated.

Then in Leviticus chapter 18, God put an end to that dispensation when he made the new laws which He gave to Moses, so from that time on, God said of incest:  Every soul that shall commit any of these abominations, shall perish from the midst of his people.

From that moment till the end of the world, incest will never be anything but an abomination. Your post is referencing abomination as justification for schism. What's worse is someone actually upthumbed it.




 

Quote from: Nado

Okay, so you say Schuckardt was schismatic because of his ordination/consecration, and that it extended to Fr. Chicoine for attempting to be ordained by the same man.

Do you extend being schismatic to the others who approved and participated? Why, or why not?

Schuckardt was certainly in schism because first, he left the Church - second, after he left the Church, he then started his own "Religious Community" as the CMRI website describes it.

Schuckardt, who already started his Religious Community, started to grow his Religious Community after he was ordained and consecrated by a schismatic bishop (Daniel Brown) whose episcopal lineage is traced back to a bishop that was excommunicated by Pope Pius X himself. Correct me if I'm wrong but that being the case, everyone that is ordained/consecrated from that entire lineage is also excommunicated, therefore in schism.

There is a lot more to it, but no sense in proceeding any further until the above is understood.

 

 

 

What follow-up role did Archbishop Thuc play?  

The best way to describe the whole Thuc debacle is to say that at best, it was a mess. Personally, IMO, the ordinations/consecrations were valid, but that whole situation and any cleric connected to the "Thuc Line" warrants in-depth investigation, which again IMO, chances are that you'd find that there are a lot of schismatic clerics running around out there.

Here is a link to the "Thuc Line" - no way to know how complete it is but there is a little bit about him first.

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: Cantarella

Must say, though that Nado has become a very entertaining poster. Have to give her that!. Her utter ignorance combined with an innate inability to stop sprouting imprudent non sense are very comical. She just does not know when to stop! It surely keeps the threads alive.

Yes, now that Ambrose and LoT have stopped "contributing" to BoD threads, and Myrna / Emerentiana were in over their heads to begin with, they had to dispatch another CMRI-bot to continue trolling against the EENS dogma, to "take over driving" as Emerentiana put it.

Yes, quite phenomenal what we are witnessing here.

Ladisllaus, If I was moderator here, I would have banned amy  discussion of your heresies  a long time ago.

 LOT and Ambrose have stated the Church's teaching on BOB and BOD many many times.  The only opinion you Feenyites have is that which comes from Feeney and the Diamonds.   As Nado said, you repeat the same things over and over again.  You are Diamond "bots"  You have Diamond  quotes on hand an post them over and over.  As Nado said, "its embarrassing"  
 I am a simple lay woman.  I don't pretend to be a theologian.    My concern is that you will infect a new unsuspecting Catholic who comes to this forum with your poison.  
A long time ago on this forum,  you Feenyites stated that Catechumens went to hell if they did not have water baptism.  Now I see that you have changed your stance, making an exception in your ideas to  spare this class of souls from your damnation judgements.  Your making progress!

 Many on here have labored to point out your errors. As I said, most of us are sick and tired of your heretical posts and are done with the subject.   Myrna and I have never "dispatched"  anyone  to keep this discussion going.  Your cabal on here does that very well.  You keep introducing new posts on the same tired subject.  Nado took the ball this time.  The rest of us are fed up  with your tirades and insults.
The Diamonds are known to be  very uncharitable.  you learn from them.
I will pray for all of you!