Author Topic: Is the CMRI schismatic? (Read 64337 times)

Stubborn · « **Reply #125 on:** December 04, 2014, 04:21:31 PM »

Quote from: APS

To be fair all the priest of the CMRI have been conditionally ordained by Bp Musey (correct me if I am wrong). To my knowledge Schukardt had nothing to do with the CMRI for a quarter of century. If I did not know any better I would believe that you have an ax to grind with them. But you quoted my post wouldn't it be more appropriate to see if CMRI under circuмstance could be non-schismatic. I think there are alot of parallels from Church history to say that CMRI are not schismatic.

Schuckardt was the founder and he was the only magisterium for 18 years, from 1967 to 1985 till he got the boot, he was +Pivarunas' seminary instructor, and btw, +Pivarunas was one of the one of the boots used on Schuckardt, plus the CMRI officially state right on their website they trace their origins back to 1967 - if they have nothing to do with him, then why do they officially trace their origin back to him? The SSPX have nothing to do with +ABL, yet they trace their origin and their lineage back to him. The CMRI is no different in that regard.

As for the Thuc line ordinations, I personally do not question their validity since schism is not an obstacle to validity of Orders.

"Valid orders" is all the CMRIers seem to focus on while completely ignoring the fact that valid Orders it is not the issue - schism is the issue.

Cantarella · « **Reply #126 on:** December 04, 2014, 04:52:00 PM »

Quote from: Stubborn

Quote from: APS

To be fair all the priest of the CMRI have been conditionally ordained by Bp Musey (correct me if I am wrong). To my knowledge Schukardt had nothing to do with the CMRI for a quarter of century. If I did not know any better I would believe that you have an ax to grind with them. But you quoted my post wouldn't it be more appropriate to see if CMRI under circuмstance could be non-schismatic. I think there are alot of parallels from Church history to say that CMRI are not schismatic.

Schuckardt was the founder and he was the only magisterium for 18 years, from 1967 to 1985 till he got the boot, he was +Pivarunas' seminary instructor, and btw, +Pivarunas was one of the one of the boots used on Schuckardt, plus the CMRI officially state right on their website they trace their origins back to 1967 - if they have nothing to do with him, then why do they officially trace their origin back to him? The SSPX have nothing to do with +ABL, yet they trace their origin and their lineage back to him. The CMRI is no different in that regard.

As for the Thuc line ordinations, I personally do not question their validity since schism is not an obstacle to validity of Orders.

"Valid orders" is all the CMRIers seem to focus on while completely ignoring the fact that valid Orders it is not the issue - schism is the issue.

Thuc Lineage Flow Chart.

What disorder! Compare to SSPX

Stubborn · « **Reply #127 on:** December 04, 2014, 05:31:41 PM »

Quote from: Cantarella

Quote from: Stubborn
Quote from: APS

To be fair all the priest of the CMRI have been conditionally ordained by Bp Musey (correct me if I am wrong). To my knowledge Schukardt had nothing to do with the CMRI for a quarter of century. If I did not know any better I would believe that you have an ax to grind with them. But you quoted my post wouldn't it be more appropriate to see if CMRI under circuмstance could be non-schismatic. I think there are alot of parallels from Church history to say that CMRI are not schismatic.

Schuckardt was the founder and he was the only magisterium for 18 years, from 1967 to 1985 till he got the boot, he was +Pivarunas' seminary instructor, and btw, +Pivarunas was one of the one of the boots used on Schuckardt, plus the CMRI officially state right on their website they trace their origins back to 1967 - if they have nothing to do with him, then why do they officially trace their origin back to him? The SSPX have nothing to do with +ABL, yet they trace their origin and their lineage back to him. The CMRI is no different in that regard.

As for the Thuc line ordinations, I personally do not question their validity since schism is not an obstacle to validity of Orders.

"Valid orders" is all the CMRIers seem to focus on while completely ignoring the fact that valid Orders it is not the issue - schism is the issue.

Thuc Lineage Flow Chart.

What disorder! Compare to SSPX

Yes, it is an obvious mess - and saying it is a mess is merely the way it is and has nothing to do with what anyone feels and thinks of CMRI.

The facts remain even if no one wants to acknowledge them - and because of that whole mess and because of the schism of their founder, anyone already a part of or contemplating becoming a part of them needs to acknowledge the fact that the probability of CMRI being is schism is quite high.

Then, if one actually takes the time to delve even deeper and do some actual investigation, they will find the deeper they dig, the more the facts keep pointing to an even higher probability that CMRI are a schismatic sect, albeit with valid clergy.

Thus far, after all 500 or whatever posts in two or three different threads on the subject, not one person has offered even a shred of hard evidence to the contrary - which is another important point which needs to be acknowledged.

APS · « **Reply #128 on:** December 04, 2014, 06:01:47 PM »

Quote from: Stubborn

Quote from: APS

To be fair all the priest of the CMRI have been conditionally ordained by Bp Musey (correct me if I am wrong). To my knowledge Schukardt had nothing to do with the CMRI for a quarter of century. If I did not know any better I would believe that you have an ax to grind with them. But you quoted my post wouldn't it be more appropriate to see if CMRI under circuмstance could be non-schismatic. I think there are alot of parallels from Church history to say that CMRI are not schismatic.

Schuckardt was the founder and he was the only magisterium for 18 years, from 1967 to 1985 till he got the boot, he was +Pivarunas' seminary instructor, and btw, +Pivarunas was one of the one of the boots used on Schuckardt, plus the CMRI officially state right on their website they trace their origins back to 1967 - if they have nothing to do with him, then why do they officially trace their origin back to him? The SSPX have nothing to do with +ABL, yet they trace their origin and their lineage back to him. The CMRI is no different in that regard.

As for the Thuc line ordinations, I personally do not question their validity since schism is not an obstacle to validity of Orders.

"Valid orders" is all the CMRIers seem to focus on while completely ignoring the fact that valid Orders it is not the issue - schism is the issue.

Can you show me your source stating that Stukardt was the magisterium of the CMRI, as I understand he was the founder of the Order. I do think the SSPX have something to do the Archbishop Lefbevre. If the CMRI is schismatic only for the issue of refusal of submission to the Holy See, is there any canonical excuse for them since they have not been condemned in any forum that I know of?

En medio stat virtus · « **Reply #129 on:** December 04, 2014, 07:23:13 PM »

A big part of the issue is one of private interpretation of Catholicism. There is no doubt that this is true with many and particularly with CMRI. They did in fact reject Bishop Musey as well as many other Thuc line Bishops and clergy who had a proper Catholic formation and foundation. They may have managed to have one of their own consecrated, but it does not make them Catholic. It does not make them proponents of truth. How can a group who would not submit to proper Catholic training be properly formed? It is picture book spirituality and counterfeit at best. They are self formed and taught from the time they expelled their founder until the present time. They propagate their own views as if it is true Catholicism? It is really sad and is
predicated on opinion.