Author Topic: Is the CMRI schismatic? (Read 64341 times)

Stubborn · « **Reply #10 on:** November 19, 2014, 06:19:14 AM »

Quote from: Nado

When I said "prime support" I am referring to the reason for why one would say the association of Schuckardt has made them schismatic.

What do you mean by "association"?

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #11 on:** November 19, 2014, 06:33:00 AM »

The OP should have outlined all reasons for schism, including sedevacantism, and after listing them all he should have then stated this the wanted us to ignore sedevacantism.

I think one of the other reasons for schism is refusing communion with fellow Catholics. To my knowledge, CMRI does not do that.

If refusing submission to the Holy Father is one of the reasons (it is) then both sides have to be reviewed in light of the facts of the time period we are suffering through. For the sake of this discussion, everyone should refrain from the sedevacantism subset of schism.

Does CMRI possess valid orders? Has the novus ordo ever rendered a judgement or even opinion on that? Until we are know otherwise, the answer is yes.

So if there are only three components of schism, and we put aside the refusal to submit to the holy Father, then we can't conclude that the CMRI is schismatic.

Stubborn · « **Reply #12 on:** November 19, 2014, 08:37:22 AM »

Quote from: Capt McQuigg

The OP should have outlined all reasons for schism, including sedevacantism, and after listing them all he should have then stated this the wanted us to ignore sedevacantism.

I think one of the other reasons for schism is refusing communion with fellow Catholics. To my knowledge, CMRI does not do that.

If refusing submission to the Holy Father is one of the reasons (it is) then both sides have to be reviewed in light of the facts of the time period we are suffering through. For the sake of this discussion, everyone should refrain from the sedevacantism subset of schism.

Does CMRI possess valid orders? Has the novus ordo ever rendered a judgement or even opinion on that? Until we are know otherwise, the answer is yes.

So if there are only three components of schism, and we put aside the refusal to submit to the holy Father, then we can't conclude that the CMRI is schismatic.

Having valid Holy Orders does not mean they are not is schism.

Elizabeth · « **Reply #13 on:** November 19, 2014, 09:28:40 AM »

:read-paper: Have you read Mario's paper, Nado? It lays aside the SV Theory of I recall. He even has a summary for quick study.

Geremia · « **Reply #14 on:** November 19, 2014, 09:36:26 AM »

Unless the Church has declared them schismatic, you can still receive their sacraments.

Addressing the question "Whether it is permissible to receive communion from heretical, excommunicate, [schismatic,] or sinful priests, and to hear mass said by them?," St. Thomas writes:

Quote from: St. Thomas Aquinas

Consequently, until the Church's sentence is pronounced, it is lawful to receive Communion at their hands, and to hear their mass.
[Et ideo, usque ad sententiam Ecclesiae, licet ab eis communionem accipere et eorum Missam audire.]