Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Poll

Are the teachings of the Universal Ordinary Magesterium infallible?

Yes
22 (71%)
No
0 (0%)
Not Sure
4 (12.9%)
Other
5 (16.1%)

Total Members Voted: 28

Voting closed: September 29, 2022, 04:57:29 PM

Author Topic: Is the Catholic Magisterium Infallible?  (Read 9776 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Is the Catholic Magisterium Infallible?
« Reply #80 on: September 22, 2022, 06:52:28 PM »

Re: Is the Catholic Magisterium Infallible?
« Reply #81 on: September 22, 2022, 07:18:25 PM »
This post is not a 'pick on Meg' post but just a question, and is for anyone really as I used to be R'n'R -

Why are SSPXers attending illegal chapels founded by an Archbishop who is still officially excommunicated?  Have you determined through your own judgment that the popes have been teaching you error?  Or that an Ecuмenical Council has promulgated error?  Or do SSPXers just like the Gregorian Chant and the Latin Mass performed in illegal chapels?



Re: Is the Catholic Magisterium Infallible?
« Reply #82 on: September 23, 2022, 05:16:25 AM »
This post is not a 'pick on Meg' post but just a question, and is for anyone really as I used to be R'n'R -

Why are SSPXers attending illegal chapels founded by an Archbishop who is still officially excommunicated?  Have you determined through your own judgment that the popes have been teaching you error?  Or that an Ecuмenical Council has promulgated error?  Or do SSPXers just like the Gregorian Chant and the Latin Mass performed in illegal chapels?
As one who has no affiliation, I think it rather a question of making the best of what is available to a person. 

Online Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: Is the Catholic Magisterium Infallible?
« Reply #83 on: September 23, 2022, 05:50:35 AM »
Satis Cognitum #8
"It was consequently provided by God that the Magisterium instituted by Jesus Christ should not end with the life of the Apostles, but that it should be perpetuated. We see it in truth propagated, and, ‘as it were, delivered from hand to hand. For the Apostles consecrated bishops, and each one appointed those who were to succeed them immediately “in the ministry of the word.”

Nay more: they likewise required their successors to choose fitting men, to endow them with like authority, and to confide to them the office and mission of teaching."

This particular passage clearly shows that the Magisterium is most definitely a living, teaching episcopal body.  The authority to TEACH is perpetuated in the successors of the Apostles.  The deposit of faith is physically delivered, by the teaching authority of the Church, the Magisterium, by ordinary and extraordinary means, "from hand to hand."    
"We see it in truth propagated, and, ‘as it were, delivered from hand to hand." The words "it" and "truth propagated" is the magisterium, teachings immune from error handed down, this truth does not end with the life of the Apostles. This is the magisterium.

"For the Apostles consecrated bishops, and each one appointed those who were to succeed them immediately “in the ministry of the word.”

Nay more: they likewise required their successors to choose fitting men, to endow them with like authority, and to confide to them the office and mission of teaching."


Yes of course the Apostles have successors whose mission is teaching, but being human they are not immune from error, they are not truth propagated handed down.


Quote
He continues:

Satis Cognitum #9
"The practice of the Church has always been the same, as is shown by the unanimous teaching of the Fathers, who were wont to hold as outside Catholic communion, and alien to the Church, whoever would recede in the least degree from any point of doctrine proposed by her authoritative Magisterium."

Proposed
verb
past tense: proposed; past participle: proposed
1. put forward (an idea or plan) for consideration or discussion by others.

A simple web definition shows that the Magisterium ACTS by PROPOSING doctrine.  

The Magisterium is literally the teaching authority commissioned by Christ Himself to go forth and teach all nations. 

The "authoritative magisterium" is "the Church." "The Church" is the teaching authority. "...this submission must also be extended to all that has been handed down as divinely revealed by the ordinary teaching authority of the entire Church spread over the whole world, and which, for this reason, Catholic theologians, with a universal and constant consent, regard as being of the faith." - PPIX Tuas Libenter

Pope Leo XIII is saying that the Fathers are condemning as alien to the Church anyone who does not believe every single human being has a Guardian Angel for example. Sorry for the poor example, but this belief is contrary to the doctrine of Guardian Angels hence is condemned by the Fathers. THAT is what he is saying. Feel free to insert any doctrine at all, it's all I have in mind at this moment, only had a few sips of coffee so far.



Quote
Satis Cognitum #10
"But as this heavenly doctrine was never left to the arbitrary judgment of private individuals, but, in the beginning delivered by Jesus Christ, was afterwards committed by Him exclusively to the Magisterium already named, so the power of performing and administering the divine mysteries, together with the authority of ruling and governing, was not bestowed by God on all Christians indiscriminately, but on certain chosen persons.

For to the Apostles and their legitimate successors alone these words have reference: “Going into the whole world preach the Gospel.” “Baptizing them.” “Do this in commemoration of Me.” “Whose sins you shall forgive they are forgiven them.” And in like manner He ordered the Apostles only and those who should lawfully succeed them to feed – that is to govern with authority – alll Christian souls."

Again, given the context of the term Magisterium, used by Pope Leo XIII, I believe it clearly shows a physical office commissioned by Christ.  The Magisterium was established by Christ to guard and protect the whole of Catholic Doctrine - which is immune from all error. 
You are taking this one a bit out of context because he explains what is meant by "This heavenly doctrine" in the previous paragraph: "It is then undoubtedly the office of the church to guard Christian doctrine and to propagate it in its integrity and purity...." Again, it is "The Church" or "The office of The Church" who is the authority and has "the authority of ruling and governing."

"The Magisterium already named"  is named in the previous paragraph as "The Church." 

Alas it looks like this thread has been degraded into yet another dose of sede vs R&R scurrility. 


Online Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: Is the Catholic Magisterium Infallible?
« Reply #84 on: September 23, 2022, 06:04:13 AM »
Basically, until the last sixty years, unless you were a religious the average Catholic knew about piety and not doctrine - say novenas, read about the saints, say your prayers, etc.  None of this has to do with Doctrine and even now it's clear that most Trads only want a Latin Mass anyway. 

Christ is the Good Shepherd, and a pope rules with that authority.  While popes didn't factor in directly at the parish or school level, it was because they didn't have to - what they taught was Catholic.  And that made its way through the ranks (schools, penny catechisms, etc.) in just the way the Church was established to run. 
Well, pre V2, the average Catholic did not learn their holy religion from popes and bishops, what they learned was the Catholic religion handed down to them from generation to generation whether they were 3 years old or 100, whether taught by parents, teachers, priests, books or seminaries. This is an example of the Church's living magisterium. It's living because souls still yearn to learn the truth to save their souls and the Church provides for those souls and will do so till the end of time. The term's definition has managed to be morphed into being popes and bishops, leaving a magisterium that is falsely believed to be altogether corrupt and a Church that has been, or will soon be destroyed, sadly, even by those (trads) who should know better.