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Poll

Are the teachings of the Universal Ordinary Magesterium infallible?

Yes
22 (71%)
No
0 (0%)
Not Sure
4 (12.9%)
Other
5 (16.1%)

Total Members Voted: 28

Voting closed: September 29, 2022, 04:57:29 PM

Author Topic: Is the Catholic Magisterium Infallible?  (Read 9905 times)

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Offline Quo vadis Domine

  • Supporter
Re: Is the Catholic Magisterium Infallible?
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2022, 07:01:24 PM »
Do you realize what these words mean when you hold the exact opposite?

It’s really really hard to believe that Stubborn can’t see his contradiction.

Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: Is the Catholic Magisterium Infallible?
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2022, 05:01:54 AM »
Do you realize what these words mean when you hold the exact opposite?
I'm not the one who holds the exact opposite, I accept, echo and hold that their explanations are as true today as they were then and always will be. Until you understand it as the popes have explained it, you will have to really need to admit that their teachings on what the magisterium is are wrong (error), mistaken and erroneous - which actually *is* the exact opposite of what they teach.

For the OP, the Church's universal magisterium is "all that has been handed down as divinely revealed by the ordinary teaching authority of the entire Church spread over the whole world, and which, for this reason, Catholic theologians, with a universal and constant consent, regard as being of the faith." - Pope Pius IX

It is necessary to remember that within the Church, the word "Universal" *always* includes the element of time, as in "since the time of the Apostles and till the end of time," iow, what the Church has taught and the faithful have believed always and everywhere, this is the simple definition of Church's universal magisterium.


Offline Quo vadis Domine

  • Supporter
Re: Is the Catholic Magisterium Infallible?
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2022, 06:11:44 AM »
I'm not the one who holds the exact opposite, I accept, echo and hold that their explanations are as true today as they were then and always will be. Until you understand it as the popes have explained it, you will have to really need to admit that their teachings on what the magisterium is are wrong (error), mistaken and erroneous - which actually *is* the exact opposite of what they teach.

For the OP, the Church's universal magisterium is "all that has been handed down as divinely revealed by the ordinary teaching authority of the entire Church spread over the whole world, and which, for this reason, Catholic theologians, with a universal and constant consent, regard as being of the faith." - Pope Pius IX

It is necessary to remember that within the Church, the word "Universal" *always* includes the element of time, as in "since the time of the Apostles and till the end of time," iow, what the Church has taught and the faithful have believed always and everywhere, this is the simple definition of Church's universal magisterium.

HUH? What? :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Re: Is the Catholic Magisterium Infallible?
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2022, 06:42:26 AM »
It is necessary to remember that within the Church, the word "Universal" *always* includes the element of time, as in "since the time of the Apostles and till the end of time," iow, what the Church has taught and the faithful have believed always and everywhere, this is the simple definition of Church's universal magisterium.
So, by definition, the universal ordinary magisterium can't contradict itself because anything new is not the ordinary magisterium.

This is blatantly false and such a definition would make the OUM a useless tautology basically stating: whatever was true before is still true.

Only by redefining the magisterium can one escape the fact that the "Church" universally teaches error for the last 60 years.

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Is the Catholic Magisterium Infallible?
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2022, 07:17:59 AM »
It’s really really hard to believe that Stubborn can’t see his contradiction.

I've been arguing this point with him for years.  He has this bizarre tautological definition of the Magisterium.

If it's true, it's Magisterium.  It's it's not true, then it's not Magisterium.  So, in other words, it's true if it's true and false if it's false.  No a priori guarantee whatsoever of being even somewhat correct.  It is determined to be Magisterium when Stubborn decides it is, having the effect of making Stubborn the Magisterium.