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Poll

Are the teachings of the Universal Ordinary Magesterium infallible?

Yes
22 (71%)
No
0 (0%)
Not Sure
4 (12.9%)
Other
5 (16.1%)

Total Members Voted: 28

Voting closed: September 29, 2022, 04:57:29 PM

Author Topic: Is the Catholic Magisterium Infallible?  (Read 9922 times)

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Offline Quo vadis Domine

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Re: Is the Catholic Magisterium Infallible?
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2022, 10:46:22 AM »
Are the teachings of the Universal Ordinary Magesterium infallible?

1) Yes
2) No
3) Not Sure
4) Other

Number 2 is heresy.  Number 3 can *possibly* be excused due to ignorance.

Offline Quo vadis Domine

  • Supporter
Re: Is the Catholic Magisterium Infallible?
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2022, 10:51:35 AM »
Can't vote.  OUM is infallible on matters that are taught thereby to be "divinely revealed" (as per the VI definition).  But, as CE states, as a matter of practical judgment, it's not always possible to discern whether something has been taught infallibly by the OUM.

https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07790a.htm
I respectfully disagree, If it is *taught* by the OUM it’s infallible, period, and we are in no position to argue with it. Not everything taught infallibly is Divinely revealed. 


Offline Stubborn

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Re: Is the Catholic Magisterium Infallible?
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2022, 11:37:05 AM »
So, by definition, the universal ordinary magisterium can't contradict itself because anything new is not the ordinary magisterium.

This is blatantly false and such a definition would make the OUM a useless tautology basically stating: whatever was true before is still true.

Only by redefining the magisterium can one escape the fact that the "Church" universally teaches error for the last 60 years.
I'm not the one redefining the magisterium, which, as Pope Pius XI said, is immune from error. Do you believe him?

The universal ordinary magisterium is merely what the Church has always taught in an ordinary manner, i.e. via her clergy, nuns, catechisms, etc., even parents. The extraordinary magisterium are those things taught in an unusual manner, such as ex cathedra definitions - which are also contained in the Church's universal magisterium.

Nothing is new because all that is taught by the Church can be likened to one doctrine. Not only does it all mean one thing, but it is, as it were, a single cloth woven from the top so that there are no seams, there is a perfect unity.

Therefore, any opinions, ideas or teachings that in any way teach contrary to any one of it’s doctrines, any part of this holy deposit, violates it’s holiness and the truth of God, tearing the cloth.


Offline Stubborn

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Re: Is the Catholic Magisterium Infallible?
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2022, 11:46:07 AM »
I respectfully disagree, If it is *taught* by the OUM it’s infallible, period, and we are in no position to argue with it. Not everything taught infallibly is Divinely revealed.
"1. The perpetual agreement of the catholic church has maintained and maintains this too: that there is a twofold order of knowledge, distinct not only as regards its source,  but also as regards its object.
2. With regard to the source,  we know at the one level by natural reason, at the other level by divine faith.

3. With regard to the object, besides those things to which natural reason can attain, there are proposed for our belief mysteries hidden in God  which, unless they are divinely revealed, are incapable of being known." - First Vatican Council

Perhaps you should not use the word "infallible" when describing the UOM, maybe "immune from error" or "without error" would be better. Ex. "If it is *taught* by the OUM it’s without error, period."

I suggest saving the word "infallible" for when you're speaking about the Church or ex cathedra definitions.


Offline Stubborn

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Re: Is the Catholic Magisterium Infallible?
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2022, 11:56:29 AM »
Yes! I’ve told him many times in the past that his line of arguing is completely circular.
No, your typical rebuttal is seen a few posts above this ^^ one in your reply #7.

Watch, a simple question.....

Do you believe Pope Pius XI below?

Pope Pius XI, Divini Illius Magistri (#18), Dec. 31, 1929: “… God Himself made the Church a sharer in the divine magisterium and by His divine benefit unable to be mistaken.” ... “To this magisterium Christ the Lord imparted immunity from error...”