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Author Topic: Is the "Bent Crucifix" of the Conciliar Popes Evil?  (Read 6012 times)

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Offline s2srea

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Is the "Bent Crucifix" of the Conciliar Popes Evil?
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2011, 11:04:15 AM »
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  • Quote from: Daegus
    There isn't a single major news station anywhere in the world that isn't pro-Israel and run by Jєωs/Freemasons.


    Try telling that to Fox News subscribers... I tried to tell my dad that and he got upset with me and called me a liberal lol.


    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    Is the "Bent Crucifix" of the Conciliar Popes Evil?
    « Reply #16 on: July 15, 2011, 03:54:18 PM »
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  • Quote from: s2srea
    Quote from: Daegus
    There isn't a single major news station anywhere in the world that isn't pro-Israel and run by Jєωs/Freemasons.


    Try telling that to Fox News subscribers... I tried to tell my dad that and he got upset with me and called me a liberal lol.


    If FOX were as conservative as people try to paint them they'd let the people on their channel reveal the full story. They're part of the NWO-frenzy media.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.


    Offline s2srea

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    Is the "Bent Crucifix" of the Conciliar Popes Evil?
    « Reply #17 on: July 15, 2011, 04:44:39 PM »
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  • Thank you SS now we have to convince their subscribers of this lol

    Offline Santo Subito

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    Is the "Bent Crucifix" of the Conciliar Popes Evil?
    « Reply #18 on: July 17, 2011, 10:00:43 PM »
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  • The "bent cross" crosier was made by an artist named Gib Singleton.

    http://www.galeriezugerdallas.com/biographies/Gib_Singleton.html

    The "bent cross" can also be seen in the Matthias Grünewald painting of the Crucifixion from 1515.



    I've heard the Singleton crosier was inspired by the mystical drawing of the crucifixion by St. John of the Cross, but I cannot verify this. His drawing is below.

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Faecj3ctFao/Sd_aehnMARI/AAAAAAAAA1E/TnWipr1127c/s1600-h/stjohnofcross.jpg

    Offline Pyrrhos

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    Is the "Bent Crucifix" of the Conciliar Popes Evil?
    « Reply #19 on: July 18, 2011, 01:39:24 AM »
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  • There are many variations of the sacred cross in art, maybe the Rhenish Crucifixus dolorosus is another extreme there:

    But whatever the case may be (not that I care too much about those exteriors), all these look nothing like JPII´s pastoral staff. No question that this was a complete innovation, starting from even using this staff so extensively.

    If the devil is behind it, well, all that is subject to opinion, I guess.

    As usual, any doings of the Novus Ordo can be defended somehow (usually in the manner of sophistry), but still people are loosing the faith, heresy and sacrilege are rampant, yea, its hardly even possible to find the dogma of the faith in the post-Vatican II Church.
    But NO-apologists will always find I way to defend it, I guess till everybody fully gave in to idolatry and atheism.  
    If you are a theologian, you truly pray, and if you truly pray, you are a theologian. - Evagrius Ponticus


    Offline TKGS

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    Is the "Bent Crucifix" of the Conciliar Popes Evil?
    « Reply #20 on: July 18, 2011, 08:27:49 AM »
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  • It's not the cross itself that is objectionable with the so-called "bent cross" that John Paul 2 carried and that Benedict 16 carries (or used to carry), it is the corpus on the cross that looks wrong.

    Clearly, there have been many depictions of the Crucifix with the cross-beam "bent".  The ones shown here are good examples of that.  But these don't turn one's stomach the way the JP2 one does.

    Offline Deliveringit1

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    Is the "Bent Crucifix" of the Conciliar Popes Evil?
    « Reply #21 on: July 21, 2011, 04:44:00 PM »
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  • Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
    That blog was from 2006, he(benedict XVI) got rid of it(that bent crucifix) just the last year or two. Every time I see him with one now, he has a gold crucifix that isn't bent.


    Actually its not a Gold Crucifix, but instead Gold Cross from what I have seen

    Offline Raoul76

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    Is the "Bent Crucifix" of the Conciliar Popes Evil?
    « Reply #22 on: July 21, 2011, 05:42:57 PM »
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  • So much of Novus Ordo "art" should turn our stomachs, and does, but it's hard to prove objectively that it's evil or has malicious intent behind it.  You can't really prove anything based on art. The Church for so long apparently had no problem with rampant full-frontal nudity in its own art, which may have seemed very strange to the early Catholics, I don't know.

    Novus Ordo "art" shows a spirit that is wrong, and this is what we pick up on.  For instance, somewhere in prophetic writings, I believe it is in Mary Agreda's City of God, it says that Jesus, when He was on Earth, was never seen smiling but often was seen crying.  Since He was the man of sorrows, this feels right, it feels authentic, it triggers recognition in the Catholic mind ( at least in mine ).  Well, at my local Novus Ordo, "Jesus" is depicted in most statues with an insane grin on his face that makes him look like a mental defective.  Truly, if you saw someone who looks like this coming towards you on the street, you'd cross to the other side.  They make him look like John Wayne Gacy or something, someone who lures kids into basements with balloons; which is fitting for the Novus Ordo, since it constitutes a massive betrayal of children.  Both children in the literal sense, who are often molested, and "children" in the sense of "children of God," who imbibe heresies and are in danger of spiritual destruction there.

    I had no idea why this felt so wrong to me before, except that I thought it was kind of corny.  But then again, for a long time I thought Fatima was kind of corny, it felt too fairy-talish to me, and now that I know I'm wrong, it made me mistrust my perception of corniness.  Anyway, now I know I was at least right about the Jesus statues, and I know why, Jesus did not go around guffawing like a buffoon, he wasn't some back-slapping, hippie, party guy, despite what the aging hippies who have drifted into the Novus Ordo might like to think.  But others could disagree and say "I think Jesus was a happy guy who liked to laugh," and while that would prove they don't really get it, that their spirit isn't perfect -- it doesn't exactly prove they're heretics.  

    You can't prove much from art, is the point.  You will just get into frustrating arguments with people who refuse to accept the obvious.  For instance, in the Vatican, in that area where Ratzinger receives his homoerotic acrobats, there is the ugliest sculpture I've ever seen, it looks like a mass of seaweed from which the souls of the damned are futilely trying to escape... But someone else could say, "Ah, it's just abstract modern art."  What am I going to say in return?  "No, it's hellish, look, you can see the screaming, damned souls!" They'd say "That's only in your sick mind."  Is it really?  What about in that cathedral in Chicago, I think, where there is a sculpture of some supposed-Jesus-figure that looks like a skeletal alien trying to emerge from a spiderweb?  Is it just in my imagination that this is demonic?  No, but I can't prove that it's demonic either, because art is subjective.

    Trads know that this stuff is twisted, but there are people out there, who I'm not necessarily willing to judge, who don't see it.  Maybe they have twisted spirits, or maybe they just have bad taste.  But bad taste isn't a sin.  Likewise,  there are people out there, who I'm also not willing to judge, who don't see Jєωs as an especial problem... What can I say?  I have a book from a priest before Vatican II, an American priest, who mocks the idea of a Jєωιѕн conspiracy and says that no recent Pope has ever talked about such a thing.  That may be true, but what he didn't consider is that they COULDN'T talk about it, because the Jєωs held the purse strings since at least the mid-19th century...  Maybe he also forgot, or never knew, that it used to be forbidden for Catholics to go to Jєωιѕн doctors, or that they were often confined in ghettos.  Was this done because the Jєωs are eminently trustworthy folk?  Seems pretty unlikely.
     
    There are just so many things out there that seem wrong, feel wrong, perhaps are wrong, but that don't fall under the category of dogmas.  However, those who have a certain kind of gift will recognize each other by certain understandings.  This sounds kind of gnostic, or like I'm describing a supra-Catholicism, but it's not that.  It's just that some people are more gifted than others at understanding the mystery of iniquity, but that being an expert in these matters may not be a requirement for getting into heaven.  In fact, some of these people -- among which I number myself -- may be lacking in charity or other virtues that others who are less gifted in terms of intellect have in abundance...
     


    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.


    Offline Hobbledehoy

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    Is the "Bent Crucifix" of the Conciliar Popes Evil?
    « Reply #23 on: July 21, 2011, 11:28:19 PM »
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  • Quote from: Raoul76
    The Church for so long apparently had no problem with rampant full-frontal nudity in its own art, which may have seemed very strange to the early Catholics, I don't know.


    Perhaps you are alluding to the influence of Renaissance humanism upon ecclesiastical art, such as is exemplified by the famous statue of David by Michelangelo, or the depiction of the Last Judgment in the Sistine Chapel also wrought by Michelangelo.

    Even if nudity occurred in ecclesiastical art before the rise of Renaissance humanism, such a phenomenon ought to be properly contextualized within the culture of our Medieval forefathers, and contrasted with the culture of the Renaissance revival of Classical humanism.

    In the case of the former, we have to remember that the Medievals were candid and frank about their bodies in a more wholesome and healthy way than we are in the present age, perverted as it is by both misotheistic pseudo-philosophy and pornography that are the legitimate consequences of apostasy and neo-paganism. The Medievals knew their bodies for what they were, with all their defects and embarrassing functions with the clarity of mind that led them to contemplate in these bodies a paradoxically living embodiment of the notion of memento mori. Also, nudity was often seen in depiction of Adam and Eve in order to emphasize the prelapsarian innocence that original sin had destroyed: a painful reminder of what was lost by our First Parents.

    In the case of the latter, art and and the aesthetic experience became very much horizontalist and anthropocentric, celebrating the excellence of the human person and its aspirations for transcendent ideals. In ecclesiastical art, this had a disastrous effect, because it brought about in greater contrast a non-negotiable chasm between the theocentric and verticalist ideals of Medieval Christendom and the humanism of the Renaissance. The precedent it established for future generations was what has led to the monstrosities in modern "art" that good taste intuitively rejects as objectionable.

    However, Mike, as you have pointed out, the aesthetic response to art and the ideological principles that are deduced therefrom are mostly subjective, according to one's dispositions and previous education upon the subject in question.

    For example, although many have defended Michelangelo's depiction of David with various arguments, I cannot because I simply cannot see how that would be acceptable for ecclesiastical art.

    However, there were works of art that applied the principles of Renaissance and Classical art to ecclesiastical art in such a way as to enhance the beauty and decorum of the latter, as is seen in the famous Pietá of Michelangelo. It is a great iconological achievement: the most painful episode in the life of Our Lady depicted in such serenity and elegance.

    I personally think that this may have actually been the way Our Lady comported herself when the sacred Body of her Divine Son was placed in her arms, as one beautiful Responsory has it:

    Quote
    ℟. My Beloved is white and ruddy, and wholly to be desired: * For all the sight of Him doth breathe forth love, and unto the return of love for love do His bowed head, spread out hands and opened breast call forth.
       ℣. With loving eyes, O Virgin, dost thou behold Him, contemplating not so much the lividness of the wounds as the salvation of the world. * For all the sight of Him doth breathe forth love, and unto the return of love for love do His bowed head, spread out hands and opened breast call forth.
       i. ℟., The Seven Dolours of the B.V.M., Friday after Passion Sunday, Brev. Rom. (cf. Cant. ch. v. 10.)


    In his book Michelangelo, Howard Hibbard records the following curious anecdote (p. 48):

    Quote
    Condivi relates that Michelangelo answered the repeated criticisms concerning Mary’s youthfulness with the common belief that “chaste women retain their fresh looks much longer and than those who are not chaste? How much more, therefore, a virgin in whom not even the least unchaste desire that might work change in her body ever arose? And I tell you, moreover, that such freshness and flower of youth besides being maintained in her by natural causes, it may possibly be that it was ordained by the divine power to prove to the world the virginity and perpetual purity of the Mother.”


    Of course, the dogma of the Immaculate Conception having been infallibly defined, we know that Our Lady did not suffer the bodily ravages that were concomitant with original sin, so Michelangelo's perception of the Blessed Virgin's youthfulness is quite in conformity to the sensus Catholicus.

    So, the same humanistic principles that led to modern anthropocentrism and its concomitant perversions, also contributed to a more realistic and decorous way of depicting the sacred. A person fabricates art and appreciates it according to the principles he has espoused, and others who behold the work of art will superimpose thereupon those principles that they in turn have espoused. A Catholic who has striven to cultivate a true sensus Catholicus will have an intuitive notion of how the sacred should be depicted in art, especially when it involves the Mysteries of our redemption, because he knows how venerable such hallowed Mysteries are and how fearful sinful man ought to be even when merely speaking of them by reason of the limitations and defects of his own mind and effability.
    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.

    Offline roscoe

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    Is the "Bent Crucifix" of the Conciliar Popes Evil?
    « Reply #24 on: July 22, 2011, 01:51:29 AM »
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  • There are a few anthropocentrists ( Jansenists)  here at cath(?)info.!!! Members should aware that the poster Raoul has-- to my knowledge-- never apologised for posting a photoshopped pic of Pius XII(XIII) invoking the devil.

    The wine emoticon has still not been restored.

     :smoke-pot: :roll-laugh1: :cheers:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline DivaEl

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    Is the "Bent Crucifix" of the Conciliar Popes Evil?
    « Reply #25 on: August 30, 2011, 04:17:36 PM »
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  • I picked up a Divine Mercy rosary with a bent crucifix as a souvenir from a Pittsburgh reliquiary, and I really don't see what's so objectionable about that crucifix.

    However, when I was a little girl in the late '60s, I visited my aunt's church in Houston. It had an altar table with 3 Jesuses on the front; one black, one Asian, and one Native American. The mural on the wall behind the altar table contained images of an astronaut walking on the moon, the birth control pill, and Martin Luther King, Jr., giving a speech.

    And the door of the tabernacle to the side of the altar area was decorated with a winged animal that looked like something from an Assyrian temple. The parishioners referred to this tabernacle as "the barbeque pit."

    I had never seen anything like this church before and was therefore pretty amazed. But what really shocked and horrified me was when one of the male parishioners came marching up the center aisle carrying a black, wrought-iron, unbent crucifix with a black, wrought-iron skeleton of Christ on it.   :shocked: I had managed to remain calm up to that point, but one sight of that skeleton during the offertory caused me to completely lose composure and begin bawling, which I had never done in Church before entering grade school.

    Between puffs on his cigarette, the young seminarian who visited with my family in front of the church after "Mass" chalked up my reaction to "family problems."

    I should have known then that something very diabolical was creeping into the Catholic church with that art. After all, how could a skeleton rise from the dead?! How much more of a tip-off do you need?! But instead, I started to lose all semblance of the "faith" as I entered my teen years, even though I attended a "Catholic" high school. (At least my loss of "faith" saved me from many years in the Novus Ordo!) I didn't regain the true faith and attend a true Latin Mass again until after I experienced something even more horrifying :devil2: during Holy Week in the late '90s...but that's a whole other story.


    Offline s2srea

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    Is the "Bent Crucifix" of the Conciliar Popes Evil?
    « Reply #26 on: August 30, 2011, 04:44:44 PM »
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  • Quote from: DivaEl
    I picked up a Divine Mercy rosary with a bent crucifix as a souvenir from a Pittsburgh reliquiary, and I really don't see what's so objectionable about that crucifix.


    Hi DivaEl- Congratulations on your first post. Welcome to contributing. Please see Raoul76's post above. He explains why you cant really 'prove', in the full sense of the word, what is wrong with art. Its subjective.

    Offline parentsfortruth

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    Is the "Bent Crucifix" of the Conciliar Popes Evil?
    « Reply #27 on: August 30, 2011, 04:56:43 PM »
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  • Quote from: Raoul76
    So much of Novus Ordo "art" should turn our stomachs, and does, but it's hard to prove objectively that it's evil or has malicious intent behind it.  You can't really prove anything based on art. The Church for so long apparently had no problem with rampant full-frontal nudity in its own art, which may have seemed very strange to the early Catholics, I don't know.

    Novus Ordo "art" shows a spirit that is wrong, and this is what we pick up on.  For instance, somewhere in prophetic writings, I believe it is in Mary Agreda's City of God, it says that Jesus, when He was on Earth, was never seen smiling but often was seen crying.  Since He was the man of sorrows, this feels right, it feels authentic, it triggers recognition in the Catholic mind ( at least in mine ).  Well, at my local Novus Ordo, "Jesus" is depicted in most statues with an insane grin on his face that makes him look like a mental defective.  Truly, if you saw someone who looks like this coming towards you on the street, you'd cross to the other side.  They make him look like John Wayne Gacy or something, someone who lures kids into basements with balloons; which is fitting for the Novus Ordo, since it constitutes a massive betrayal of children.  Both children in the literal sense, who are often molested, and "children" in the sense of "children of God," who imbibe heresies and are in danger of spiritual destruction there.

    I had no idea why this felt so wrong to me before, except that I thought it was kind of corny.  But then again, for a long time I thought Fatima was kind of corny, it felt too fairy-talish to me, and now that I know I'm wrong, it made me mistrust my perception of corniness.  Anyway, now I know I was at least right about the Jesus statues, and I know why, Jesus did not go around guffawing like a buffoon, he wasn't some back-slapping, hippie, party guy, despite what the aging hippies who have drifted into the Novus Ordo might like to think.  But others could disagree and say "I think Jesus was a happy guy who liked to laugh," and while that would prove they don't really get it, that their spirit isn't perfect -- it doesn't exactly prove they're heretics.  

    You can't prove much from art, is the point.  You will just get into frustrating arguments with people who refuse to accept the obvious.  For instance, in the Vatican, in that area where Ratzinger receives his homoerotic acrobats, there is the ugliest sculpture I've ever seen, it looks like a mass of seaweed from which the souls of the damned are futilely trying to escape... But someone else could say, "Ah, it's just abstract modern art."  What am I going to say in return?  "No, it's hellish, look, you can see the screaming, damned souls!" They'd say "That's only in your sick mind."  Is it really?  What about in that cathedral in Chicago, I think, where there is a sculpture of some supposed-Jesus-figure that looks like a skeletal alien trying to emerge from a spiderweb?  Is it just in my imagination that this is demonic?  No, but I can't prove that it's demonic either, because art is subjective.

    Trads know that this stuff is twisted, but there are people out there, who I'm not necessarily willing to judge, who don't see it.  Maybe they have twisted spirits, or maybe they just have bad taste.  But bad taste isn't a sin.  Likewise,  there are people out there, who I'm also not willing to judge, who don't see Jєωs as an especial problem... What can I say?  I have a book from a priest before Vatican II, an American priest, who mocks the idea of a Jєωιѕн conspiracy and says that no recent Pope has ever talked about such a thing.  That may be true, but what he didn't consider is that they COULDN'T talk about it, because the Jєωs held the purse strings since at least the mid-19th century...  Maybe he also forgot, or never knew, that it used to be forbidden for Catholics to go to Jєωιѕн doctors, or that they were often confined in ghettos.  Was this done because the Jєωs are eminently trustworthy folk?  Seems pretty unlikely.
     
    There are just so many things out there that seem wrong, feel wrong, perhaps are wrong, but that don't fall under the category of dogmas.  However, those who have a certain kind of gift will recognize each other by certain understandings.  This sounds kind of gnostic, or like I'm describing a supra-Catholicism, but it's not that.  It's just that some people are more gifted than others at understanding the mystery of iniquity, but that being an expert in these matters may not be a requirement for getting into heaven.  In fact, some of these people -- among which I number myself -- may be lacking in charity or other virtues that others who are less gifted in terms of intellect have in abundance...
     




    I would suggest you go and watch this video... problem is, it's not on youtube anymore. It's called Rape of the Soul, and it was produced by a traditional-leaning novus ordo Catholic, and he exposes the embed art that has been plaguing the newchurch for many years.

    http://rapeofthesoul.com

    There was a reason that the San Damiano Crucifix was buried for 700 years, because the sisters saw the embed art in it, and curiously, (surprise, surprise) it was John XXIII that allowed it to be seen again.

    Here are some clips from the video courtesy of Michael Calace, producer of the video.





















    Matthew 5:37

    But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil.

    My Avatar is Fr. Hector Bolduc. He was a faithful parish priest in De Pere, WI,