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Author Topic: Is Strickland waking up?  (Read 8725 times)

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Offline SimpleMan

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Re: Is Strickland waking up?
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2024, 09:33:52 PM »
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  • Well, they did "laicize" Pavone for what seems like a lot less and to my knowledge he wasn't excommunicated. That was pretty high profile too. In their eyes McCarrick is a hero who fell on his sword for the cause and Strickland is the true enemy. Vigano got "excommunicated", for denying VII and Francis as pope - Strickland has done neither of those things explicitly - yet... If you can't excommunicate - "laicize", or vice versa as long as the job gets done. Prayers for Strickland though, I hope he comes over to our side of his own free choice.

    Vatican dismisses Father Frank Pavone from priesthood | Catholic News Agency

    Pavone wasn't a bishop.

    So far as I can see, Strickland hasn't done anything that would rise to the level of excommunication, or laicization for that matter, not even by an ecclesiastical regime that is hostile to him.  He seems to be careful not to cross the Rubicon of sedevacantism (or outright Vatican II denial), which would be a horse of an entirely different color.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is Strickland waking up?
    « Reply #16 on: November 15, 2024, 10:21:45 PM »
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  • Pavone wasn't a bishop.

    So far as I can see, Strickland hasn't done anything that would rise to the level of excommunication, or laicization for that matter, not even by an ecclesiastical regime that is hostile to him.  He seems to be careful not to cross the Rubicon of sedevacantism (or outright Vatican II denial), which would be a horse of an entirely different color.

    He didn't do anything to warrant getting deposed either.  You seem to underestimate the malice of Bergoglio 


    Online Stubborn

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    Re: Is Strickland waking up?
    « Reply #17 on: November 16, 2024, 05:01:49 AM »
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  • Could you explain a little more about how you view the situation in Strickland's context. I take it you think of him as a legitimate bishop. You mention him being expelled from his office but did that not already happen when he was replaced in Tyler TX.? Vigano was declared in schism and excommunicated but was already retired from any offices he held if I am remembering correctly. So, I think Laughton has it right that the next step for him would be "laicization", because they cannot actually hit him the same as Vigano (excommunication) who has denied both Vatican II as legitimate and Francis as being pope. Strickland has done neither. He seems to think the pope can be an apostate/heretic and many of the bishops can be heretics while still retaining their offices, which is the practical mindset of R&R.
    As far as I'm concerned he's a legitimate bishop, but I do have grave doubts about that. My doubts would keep me from getting confirmed by him, and I doubt the validity of NO priests he's ordained - same as all NO hierarchy and clergy, for me there is no difference - I avoid it all, always have. For me, he is no different than all NO clergy/hierarchy. But understand that for me, I do not concern myself with such things because I've never had to and hopefully never will.

    Whatever this Laughton fellow says I do not know and never even heard of him. Far as I'm concerned, I just wait until I hear about him condemning V2, the NO, it's "mass" and all things NO, and has he been wholly demonized and slandered by his fellow bishops and the pope or in the press? If so I am ignorant of it. Until something along those lines happen, for me, I have no reason to pay any attention to what he says or does, he still "one of them" - to me.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Online Stubborn

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    Re: Is Strickland waking up?
    « Reply #18 on: November 16, 2024, 05:11:57 AM »
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  • Yes, I had thi same debate with him earlier.  This is a first for R&R, to claim that cuм ex supports R&R.  :laugh1: :laugh2:  We used to hear all the time that CEA is a disciplinary rather than doctrinal docuмent, but this is a good one.

    What the "judging" question refers to is a statement by Pope Innocent where he states that a Pope cannot be judged, except that a heretic Pope could be judged, or, rather held to have already been judged by God.
    It's kinda like a BOD where the BODers see only the words: "the desire thereof" and ignore the rest. Sedes read the whole cuм ex docuмent, comprehend it in it's total clarity, all except for the opening paragraph. In fact if they read it at all, to them that opening paragraph is the only part of the whole docuмent that means something other than what it says.

    No one disputes a heretic pope is already judged by God. But the pope in cuм ex, first and foremost and before anything else, clearly states that a pope can indeed be a heretic and what we are to do about it - which is the definition of R&R, always has been, even before this papal directive was given the label of "R&R" by sedes.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Is Strickland waking up?
    « Reply #19 on: November 16, 2024, 11:20:20 AM »
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  • He didn't do anything to warrant getting deposed either.  You seem to underestimate the malice of Bergoglio

    I am just thinking that to laicize or excommunicate a bishop is a horse of a different color, than doing likewise to a simple priest.  

    Strickland is walking a fine line right now, between accusing the pope of manifest heresy and declaring the office vacant, and pulling his punches short of that.  Either one of those would indeed be Rubicons to cross, and Vigano has crossed both of those Rubicons.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is Strickland waking up?
    « Reply #20 on: November 16, 2024, 11:29:45 AM »
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  • I am just thinking that to laicize or excommunicate a bishop is a horse of a different color, than doing likewise to a simple priest. 

    Strickland is walking a fine line right now, between accusing the pope of manifest heresy and declaring the office vacant, and pulling his punches short of that.  Either one of those would indeed be Rubicons to cross, and Vigano has crossed both of those Rubicons.

    Yeah, I don't think he'd laicize him, but then nothing Bergoglio does surprises me anymore.  If Strickland makes any more public accusations of heresy, he MIGHT get the letter to appear in Rome on charges of schism like +Vigano did.  Bergoglio weighs whether by excommunicating him they'd just give him more publicity and get more Conciliar conservatives in an uproar against him and tempted to follow +Vigano into sedevacantism.

    I think that the "last straw" against +Vigano was when +Vigano accused him of having predated upon a young man some years ago.  Bergoglio knew that the secular media, unaware of the theological finer points of Catholicism, would construe any action he took against +Vigano as retribution for +Vigano having blown the whistle on the McCarrick crimes, so it took something like to get him so irritated that he took the chance of it backfiring on him.

    Now, perhaps the reason they didn't "laicize" +Vigano is because ... how do you really laicize a schismatic anyway?  It would be like if a Catholic Pope laicized the Orthodox ... they're already suspended and prohibited from offering Mass, etc., by virtue of being in schism and/or excommunciated.  Laicization is actually typically done as a "mercy" to the offender, whereby they'd be freed up to marry, etc. ... but for someone who's already excommunicated/suspended, it doesn't really mean much.  It's not like they can actually REMOVE Holy Orders from the individual, where if he decided to ignore it and offer Mass anyway, it would be invalid, since he's now a layman.

    Offline Cera

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    Re: Is Strickland waking up?
    « Reply #21 on: November 16, 2024, 12:17:24 PM »
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  • BREAKING | Bishop Strickland rebukes US bishops for their silence on Pope Francis’ errors: ‘What will it take?’
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    Bishop Joseph Strickland strongly rebuked “silent” U.S. bishops in an open letter at the USCCB’s annual meeting in Baltimore, condemning them for refusing to speak out against “false messages constantly flowing from the Vatican” under Pope Francis. Bishop Strickland reminded the USCCB that God “will send forth His avenging angels to heap coals of fire upon the heads” of unfaithful bishops and accused many prelates of “blaspheming the very Truth that the original apostles died to preserve.” “Pope Francis has abdicated his responsibility to serve as the primary guardian of the Deposit of Faith,” Bishop Strickland declared, warning bishops that the responsibility of protecting the faith falls to them. 


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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is Strickland waking up?
    « Reply #22 on: November 16, 2024, 12:25:59 PM »
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  • “Pope Francis has abdicated ..."

    He could stop right there.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is Strickland waking up?
    « Reply #23 on: November 16, 2024, 01:42:10 PM »
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  • Bishop Strickland just posted another excerpt from Wojtyla, to which I responded here ...



    https://x.com/VladSarto/status/1857870437801148573

    Offline songbird

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    Re: Is Strickland waking up?
    « Reply #24 on: November 16, 2024, 03:02:33 PM »
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  • IS Strickland even a priest?  I doubt it!  IMO he is just show and tell, nothing.  The world is a stage.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is Strickland waking up?
    « Reply #25 on: November 16, 2024, 03:50:19 PM »
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  • So what if his orders are doubtful?  Are you going to his Masses or something?  Important thing is that he's well known and has a following, and could influence many souls in the right direction ... and he himself is a soul in the image and likeness of God.

    And if he were led back to Tradition, the doubtful Holy Orders could easily be rectified.

    I swear, some peoeple here can't cut anyone a break.  He's obviously sincere and has shown courage standing up against Bergoglio ... almost alone among the Conciliar or formerly-Conciliar hierarchy.  You should pray that God isn't as harsh with you at your judgment as you are with him.  Obviously if he does or says something bad, it should be called out, and that's why I asked him to look into Wojtyla after he made several posts quoting him ... but just calling him "nothing" because he labors under doubtful Orders?