Bishop Fellay, on more than one occasion, has stated that the SSPX has rejected offers of regularization on the grounds that it would be the end of the SSPX - that somehow the SSPX would be infected w/ modernism. Can someone really take Bishop Fellay's stance and not be considered schismatic? Did not Christ say that the wheat and the cockle shall grow together? Is not Bishop Fellay saying the opposite?

If you can have the TLM - you can preach the traditional faith - and you can have ordinary jurisdiction at the same time what is the difference in the situation now and, let's say, the 1950's? The rot was there then but so were the saints - together. Is not the FSSP's way more Catholic?

Bishop Fellay, on more than one occasion, has stated that the SSPX has rejected offers of regularization on the grounds that it would be the end of the SSPX - that somehow the SSPX would be infected w/ modernism. Can someone really take Bishop Fellay's stance and not be considered schismatic? Did not Christ say that the wheat and the cockle shall grow together? Is not Bishop Fellay saying the opposite?

If you can have the TLM - you can preach the traditional faith - and you can have ordinary jurisdiction at the same time what is the difference in the situation now and, let's say, the 1950's? The rot was there then but so were the saints - together. Is not the FSSP's way more Catholic?

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No, and here is why.  They are a facade and set up to keep you and your ilk out of the way so the real movers and shakers in the church can plow through with their agenda and restructuring of the faith.    

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but what I do manage to understand is that you think the SSPX is committing schism. That is not true. If Bishop Fellay were to, for instance, submit to the modernist Rome like the FSSP, then it would become less Traditional. Of course, I couldn't say crawling with modernism because the FSSP is generally pretty Traditional.

I have no qualms with FSSP priests in general, but the order was foolish not to have a defender with Apostalic succession and full orders as their own bishops...they trusted vipers...

Cardinal C. Hoyos has stated that the SSPX is NOT IN SCHISM...

Why should Fellay regularize with modernists and heretics? for what purpose would that serve the faithful? little different than "regularizing" with Protestants......for the majority of Catholics, so called in name, today are really, not Catholic.....not in theology, practice, etc...What makes you Catholic? it is what you belevie and practice!!!

He wouldn't be regularizing with heretics but with the Church. The Church consists of saints and sinners (heretics are not included) so isn't that a moot point?

Like I said in my first post.... rewind to 1950's - it's the exact same situation minus V2. The modernists were still there yet it would've been unthinkable to say 'I refuse jurisdiction because I don't want my order to be tainted by heresy' which is essentially what B. Fellay has been saying. If you don't want your Priesty Fraternity tainted you need to mind your seminaries - not refuse ordinary jurisdiction because there's heretics in the Church.

The SSPX will not turn over their priests and flocks to Local Bishop Heretic....who would!!!

But they're not being asked to turn anyone over to a heretic. They've been offered, and refused, the "rolls-royce." How can this not be schismatic?

Cardinal C. Hoyos has stated that the SSPX is NOT IN SCHISM...

And this is the strongest argument yet I'm not sure. I mean things could change - and they have changed. John Paul II obviously considered SSPX to be in schism. That much is clear from reading Ecclesia Dei Afflicta.

You have to understand I'm only airing my conscience - I actually attend at the SSPX - but I'm starting to have doubts about the Catholicity of such an attitude as B. Fellay has taken. St. Athanasius wouldn't have refused an offer of jurisdiction from the Pope, even if he was siding more with the arians - that much is obvious. I don't know of any situation in the Church where someone was offered regularization and it was refused because there are heretics "in" the Church. There will always be heretics with roman collars on. Should St. Thomas refuse jurisdiction from Our Lord because Judas was a traitor?

The FSSP serve only one purpose - to keep the reactionaries quiet and sedated.  According to some folks here, an FSSP priest can't even speak out without getting reported to the local bishop.  

I feel sorry for the people who go back to the church thinking that they will find the church that they left still there and intact.

Belloc is right - the situation is not so cut and dry and is far more complex than most people know or care to know.  Apathy, for the most part, rules in the novus ordo pews.

I do agree with you and Belloc. The FSSP can't match the SSPX because they must go along with Vatican II and publicly must keep their mouths shut, whereas the SSPX will speak out against the NO and VII at free will. The FSSP atleast does a good job of offering the TLM, though it is true that a FSSP priest will get in trouble if he speaks out in public.

You have to understand I'm only airing my conscience - I actually attend at the SSPX - but I'm starting to have doubts about the Catholicity of such an attitude as B. Fellay has taken. St. Athanasius wouldn't have refused an offer of jurisdiction from the Pope, even if he was siding more with the arians - that much is obvious. I don't know of any situation in the Church where someone was offered regularization and it was refused because there are heretics "in" the Church. There will always be heretics with roman collars on. Should St. Thomas refuse jurisdiction from Our Lord because Judas was a traitor?

I've been down the road you are on.  

The truth is, you have no idea what St. Athanasius would or wouldn't have done.  

The present crisis in the church is unprecedented even though not a few would like to convince themselves otherwise.  

If you wish to return to the novus ordo church, by all means do.  But don't  choose to stick your head in the sand or, as I am hearing of some doing these days, focusing "on the positive"  :rolleyes:.  If you have to do that in order to survive in the church, that alone should tell you that there is something gravely wrong.

And don't forget.  The FSSP, ICK and other "traditional" groups in the church are NOT the novus ordo church.  They are there simply to, as I earlier wrote, shut you up.

The crisis in the church isn't over.  It hasn't even begun to reverse itself.   If you think it has, that is only because you are already inured to it all, and it has ceased to horrify you.

I know well the power of brainwashing, association, and the communist tactic of "Repeat a lie often enough and it will become the truth."

I won't have a thread that simply says "SSPX" followed by a random charge -- That's why I renamed this thread.

Sorry about that.