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Author Topic: Francis: You dont have to believe in God to go to Heaven  (Read 9128 times)

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Offline Stubborn

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Francis: You dont have to believe in God to go to Heaven
« Reply #150 on: September 16, 2013, 04:57:42 AM »
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  • Quote from: 2Vermont

    And yet he never explicitly states that you can not do so. I think taking this on its own is much like taking one Bible verse on its own.  One must look to all that the Church has said on this topic.  When one does, it is understandable why a SV can come to the conclusion he has come to.

    I'm still thinking that you are coming off as saying your way is the only way.

    I also can understand why some think that R&R is really just dethroning a pope without stating it.  



    I am saying what the Bull clearly states. My way or not, the Bull says what the Bull says much as I wish it said it was our duty to proclaim there is no pope - but it doesn't and, I think the reasons for this are as I already stated in my previous post.

    The way that Bull is worded, and I am sure many SVs will be the first to say -   the Bull is infallible, as such, we cannot make exceptions to what it says or we change it's meaning, which is how heresies are started - which is why we must read it as it is written.


    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Francis: You dont have to believe in God to go to Heaven
    « Reply #151 on: September 16, 2013, 03:14:00 PM »
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  • Quote from: Stubborn
    Quote from: 2Vermont

    And yet he never explicitly states that you can not do so. I think taking this on its own is much like taking one Bible verse on its own.  One must look to all that the Church has said on this topic.  When one does, it is understandable why a SV can come to the conclusion he has come to.

    I'm still thinking that you are coming off as saying your way is the only way.

    I also can understand why some think that R&R is really just dethroning a pope without stating it.  



    I am saying what the Bull clearly states. My way or not, the Bull says what the Bull says much as I wish it said it was our duty to proclaim there is no pope - but it doesn't and, I think the reasons for this are as I already stated in my previous post.

    The way that Bull is worded, and I am sure many SVs will be the first to say -   the Bull is infallible, as such, we cannot make exceptions to what it says or we change it's meaning, which is how heresies are started - which is why we must read it as it is written.




    And again, you are only taking one docuмent to support your view.  

    Protestants take one bible verse to support their views and we know that that isn't good enough.

    We also have Church teaching telling us that heretics lose their title ipso facto/automatically.  Are we all supposed to ignore that teaching?

    Clearly you and I are going to have to agree to disagree.  I really think this is all semantics anyway.  If someone resists a pope and chooses not to obey him, then he is basically saying he isn't the pope.