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Author Topic: Is Leo XIV a valid Pope?  (Read 2696 times)

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Offline OABrownson1876

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Re: Is Leo XIV a valid Pope?
« Reply #45 on: May 11, 2025, 07:41:21 PM »
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  • I also struggle with the Card. Siri scenario.  One can accept or deny under duress.  For instance: I elope with a woman because I think her dad opposes the marriage and he might do violence.  The bride and groom both marry under duress.  The same man could elope, and right before the exchange of the vows says, "Well Cindy, I have been thinking it over, and I take back my decision to marry."  It would be a more interest case if the two exchanged vows and then the man were to say, "Well Cindy, I really want to take it back because I fear for our lives."  But I think the priest asks the question, "Are you freely exchanging these vows?" 

    In the case of Siri the cardinal dean asked and Siri said, "I accept."  Then Siri thinks it over and essentially says "I take it back."  Either he was pope to begin with and resigned, or he was never pope at the moment he said "Accepto." It seems that Siri was probably under duress even before he said "accepto." 


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    Offline Geremia

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    Re: Is Leo XIV a valid Pope?
    « Reply #46 on: May 11, 2025, 08:35:36 PM »
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  • One can only wonder when the bigger fish like FSSPX will be "fully in" too.
    Sermon by SSPX priest today even mentioned how the SSPX has never been sedevacantist.
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    Offline Minnesota

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    Re: Is Leo XIV a valid Pope?
    « Reply #47 on: May 11, 2025, 09:19:21 PM »
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  • Ann Barnhardt removed the sede vacante banner. Micheal Matt is scolding anyone who is even remotely suspicious of Prevost, let alone something more. Taylor Marshall pledges full submission. They are all flocking back in after being let down by Bergoglio. It did not take much or long. One can only wonder when the bigger fish like FSSPX will be "fully in" too. That will leave only one undesirable group out there to "spoil the party", of course the mean bad ol' sedes.
    SSPX was already fully sedeplenist as official policy.

    There are many privately sedevacantist priests in the SSPX, FSSP, and probably the dioceses. They just can't be open about it.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is Leo XIV a valid Pope?
    « Reply #48 on: May 11, 2025, 09:20:11 PM »
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  • In the case of Siri the cardinal dean asked and Siri said, "I accept."  Then Siri thinks it over and essentially says "I take it back."  Either he was pope to begin with and resigned, or he was never pope at the moment he said "Accepto." It seems that Siri was probably under duress even before he said "accepto." 

    No, the "duress" in question would have been deliberately applied AFTER his accepted, and that would have rendered his resignation null.  I'm really not sure what's difficult about that.  It's fairly straightforward.  Had they applied the duress beforehand, he would never have become pope despite the duress.

    You seem to think this was just some general "duress" condition where he's reluctant to be pope and that was the same before and after.  What has been posited was that there very specific grave threats made to cause him to step down.

    If you intend to get married, but then someone threatens you (a family member of the bride with a shotgun) and you therefore don't go through with it, are you married?  No.  You can't infer what someone WOULD HAVE DONE under the circuмstances.

    I see objections along the lines of ... 1) we don't know if that actually happened or 2) he accepted V2 and so he fell from the papacy ... but this is the first time I've seen someone not getting the basic concept of duress negating a resignation (it's actually spelled out clearly in Canon Law).

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is Leo XIV a valid Pope?
    « Reply #49 on: May 11, 2025, 09:21:04 PM »
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  • Sermon by SSPX priest today even mentioned how the SSPX has never been sedevacantist.

    So, did anyone think they were?  Not sure what the point of that is.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is Leo XIV a valid Pope?
    « Reply #50 on: May 11, 2025, 09:25:50 PM »
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  • Ann Barnhardt removed the sede vacante banner. Micheal Matt is scolding anyone who is even remotely suspicious of Prevost, let alone something more. Taylor Marshall pledges full submission. They are all flocking back in after being let down by Bergoglio. It did not take much or long. One can only wonder when the bigger fish like FSSPX will be "fully in" too. That will leave only one undesirable group out there to "spoil the party", of course the mean bad ol' sedes.

    So, in this case, the Modernists were smarter than I am.  I thought that it would have required a Sarah or a Burke to swing Trad, Inc. back into the Conciliar fold ... but I guess that the Conciliar Modernists correctly read the pulse of the quasi-Trads, realizing that taking the name Leo, muttering a bit of Latin, and having chant sung at your "Mass" (while sitting there listening to female lectors) was all it would take.  Of course, they have the advantage of a massive intelligence apparatus ... as well as knowing that they have various paid gatekeepers out there as "influences", e.g. the Michael Matt's and Taylor Marshalls of the world.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is Leo XIV a valid Pope?
    « Reply #51 on: May 11, 2025, 09:30:52 PM »
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  • While the fallen angelic (aka demonic) intellects behind this deception are of course brilliant, I am nevertheless disappointed in how stupid and/or faithless the majority of Trads are.  I'm even hearing this type of crap from lifelong sedevacantists about "cha-wity" and "nitheness" (as Bishop Williamson used to say).

    No, "cha-wity" does not mean pretending that the wolf crawling into the pen is really a sheep, or giving it the "benefit" of the doubt.  See, this latest wolf just put on a better sheep costume ... whereas Bergoglio hardly even wore one (got the cheap plastic mask from Walmart).  So, out of "cha-wity", so as not to hurt that sheep's "feewings", just in case he's really a sheep, I'm not going to say anything.  Well, what about the "cha-wity" to the other sheep, eh?  If I'm wrong, there's going to be carnage.  But if I spot the wolf, see a glint of fang, I'm going to shout at the top of my lungs, out of "cha-wity" towards the other sheep and to expose the deception.  What's the worse that can happen if I'm wrong.  So I hurt the sheep's feelings?  Big deal.  I apologize later and retract my statement.  Snowflake can suck it up.  That pales in comparison to being wrong in the opposite direction.

    People just never cease to amaze me in terms of how stupid they can be.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is Leo XIV a valid Pope?
    « Reply #52 on: May 11, 2025, 09:35:43 PM »
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  • These slightly-more-subtle deceptions like Ratzinger or now (at least so far) Leo, or in a different way before them Wojtyla ... they are FAR MORE DANGEROU than Jorge.

    If I'm trying to feed you poison, if I don't put enough sugar in the mixture you're going to detect the bitterness and spit it out.  But if I layer it on so thick that it's 95% sugar and you can hardly taste the poison ... you're dead meat.

    It's actually a very simple concept.

    So, if I know there's poison in the spoon, I'm not going to sit here praising the quality and taste of the sugar ... lest someone be tempted to try it.

    Even then Leo has already said that he's fully committed to the direction of the Church since Vatican II, i.e. fully behind the new non-Catholic religion established at that time, and that he's moving "forward" (that's Bergoglian codeward for rejecting the "backward" thinking of the Trads), and has even said he fully endorsed the direction in which Bergoglio has taken things.  So he's not even rolling it back to Ratzinger's direction, thinking perhaps the Bergs veered off a bit too far to the left and so things need a course correction.  He's 100% on board the Bergoglian agenda ... BY HIS OWN WORDS.  So what "chance" or the benefit of what "doubt" is required?


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is Leo XIV a valid Pope?
    « Reply #53 on: May 11, 2025, 10:07:50 PM »
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  • What I was saying before the conclave is that, well, if they feel that they have some time, they might roll out a Sarah in order to re-absorb the Trads, but if they think their time is running short, they'll elect someone to push forward the Bergoglian agenda.

    Well, they were able to kill two birds with one stone ... where they have a true Bergoglian (who says he's committed to Bergs' agenda), and yet is able to suck Trad, Inc. back in with the papal name and muttering a bit of Latin.  So they were able to pull off BOTH and for them it turned out not to be an either/or  proposition.

    I can see the pre-conclave planning ... including Jorge sensing his time was near suddenly promoting this guy out of nowhere.

    "We need someone that can not only carry forward the Bergoglian agenda but also fool the Trads.  Bergoglio was too brazen about it and pushed a lot of Catholics toward sedevacantism.  Flaming Modernists like Parolin or Zuppi would keep pushing them in that direction.  We could roll out Sarah to fool the Trads.  Well, problem there is that Sarah couldn't credibly keep Bergoglio's agenda moving.  If he suddenly backed Amoris Laetitia and Fuducia Supplicans, he'd just lose credibility.  Do we have someone who has no history or background so that he could go either way and nobody would know whether it was real or not?  Prevost doesn't say anything except unintelligible word salad that nobody knows what it even means.  Perfect.  Does he know any Latin?  Nope, but he speaks fluent Spanish, so we could put him through a crash course just to pronounce the stuff credibly.  Have him pick a Traddie type name, like, oh, Leo.  Put Ratzinger's vestments on him, and float some bogus story to the press about how Prevost secretly said the Tridentine Mass.  Excellent ... that'll fool everyone.  Prevost will simply not roll back any of Bergoglio's advancements like Amoris Laetitia or Fiducia Supplicans and will let them therefore stay there and be established while maintaining plausible deniability since Bergoglio did those.  In the meantime he'll carry forward the destruction simply by appointing the Modernist heretics that are all on board with the agenda.  He could possible make a token move to, say, put Strickland back in just to keep the Trads fooled."

    Offline Geremia

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    Re: Is Leo XIV a valid Pope?
    « Reply #54 on: May 11, 2025, 10:28:03 PM »
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  • did anyone think they were?  Not sure what the point of that is.
    There are many SSPX congregants who are.
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    Offline Simeon

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    Re: Is Leo XIV a valid Pope?
    « Reply #55 on: May 12, 2025, 12:51:24 AM »
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  • So, in this case, the Modernists were smarter than I am.  I thought that it would have required a Sarah or a Burke to swing Trad, Inc. back into the Conciliar fold ... but I guess that the Conciliar Modernists correctly read the pulse of the quasi-Trads, realizing that taking the name Leo, muttering a bit of Latin, and having chant sung at your "Mass" (while sitting there listening to female lectors) was all it would take.  Of course, they have the advantage of a massive intelligence apparatus ... as well as knowing that they have various paid gatekeepers out there as "influences", e.g. the Michael Matt's and Taylor Marshalls of the world.

    Trad Inc. proved that it is part of the great apostasy when it accepted bergoglio as its pope. I think that was last call. 

    No matter how clearly God revealed to them the nature of the Vatican II beast, they obstinately adhered to it. I cannot say that God has abandoned them, but it's possible. 


    Offline Bl Alojzije Stepinac

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    Re: Is Leo XIV a valid Pope?
    « Reply #56 on: May 12, 2025, 02:57:31 AM »
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  • While the fallen angelic (aka demonic) intellects behind this deception are of course brilliant, I am nevertheless disappointed in how stupid and/or faithless the majority of Trads are.  I'm even hearing this type of crap from lifelong sedevacantists about "cha-wity" and "nitheness" (as Bishop Williamson used to say).

    No, "cha-wity" does not mean pretending that the wolf crawling into the pen is really a sheep, or giving it the "benefit" of the doubt.  See, this latest wolf just put on a better sheep costume ... whereas Bergoglio hardly even wore one (got the cheap plastic mask from Walmart).  So, out of "cha-wity", so as not to hurt that sheep's "feewings", just in case he's really a sheep, I'm not going to say anything.  Well, what about the "cha-wity" to the other sheep, eh?  If I'm wrong, there's going to be carnage.  But if I spot the wolf, see a glint of fang, I'm going to shout at the top of my lungs, out of "cha-wity" towards the other sheep and to expose the deception.  What's the worse that can happen if I'm wrong.  So I hurt the sheep's feelings?  Big deal.  I apologize later and retract my statement.  Snowflake can suck it up.  That pales in comparison to being wrong in the opposite direction.

    People just never cease to amaze me in terms of how stupid they can be.
    THIS^^ 

    I was also surprised to say the least, how they acted just based on these minor externals. Maybe more critical and suspicous was fr. Rodriguez at Fatima Center. He adressed important problems and questions. 
    Haven't they already learned the lesson from last conclave? So rarely they criticize late Bendict XVI aka Ratzinger, they have a hope now for Leo XIV, aka Prevost.

    It's okay to pray for him, but he thanked "pope Francis", he will continue with synodality. And Michael Matt, Taylor Marshall and many others in R & R media act like cardinal Sarah or cardinal Burke was elected. Sedecantists are more honest, I watched video discussion between Kevin Davis, Mario Derksen, Louie Verrecchio, fr. Zepeda. They all said the ugly truth, what needs to be said. More than that, thanks to fr. Zepeda, Prevost is accussed for cover up and he brings many details in his video on The Catholic Wire channel. 

    Even if we don't agree with their position, we can listen to them and make our own conclusion.
    I hope one day SSPX and Resistance will unite and declare publicly synodal church as false church and separate from them permanently. 
    All this fighting and division in Traditional Movement is diabolical, serves the interests of conciliar/synodal church. 
     Archbishop Vigano was isolated for declaring Francis antipope, and he says now that all the cardinals he apointed are invalid. Franics aka Bergoglio planned a great ecuмenical meeting with eastern schismatics, and possibly to change from Gregorian to Julian calendar. 

    But it is utopia, progressives, gαys and freemasons occupied Rome, and it will become pagan and will be destroyed as Cardinal Manning wrote. All early, ancient Church fathers taught this. 








    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Is Leo XIV a valid Pope?
    « Reply #57 on: May 12, 2025, 06:08:00 AM »
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  • Sermon by SSPX priest today even mentioned how the SSPX has never been sedevacantist.
    I think you (and Minnesota) may have misread his post.  "Fully in" meant fully in the NO, not sedevacantism. 

    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    Re: Is Leo XIV a valid Pope?
    « Reply #58 on: May 12, 2025, 06:22:50 AM »
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  • Fr. David Nix remains firmly realistic and suspicious of Prevost.

    https://padreperegrino.org/2025/05/sellouts/
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Is Leo XIV a valid Pope?
    « Reply #59 on: May 12, 2025, 06:36:28 AM »
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  • Fr. David Nix remains firmly realistic and suspicious of Prevost.

    https://padreperegrino.org/2025/05/sellouts/
    He has potential although he states he loves the old sacraments and yet he remains ordained in the new.  As for Prevost, he has the Traditional trappings.  Key word: trappings.