Author Topic: Is Jesus immortal or Eternal ? (Read 2985 times)

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #5 on:** May 08, 2012, 01:34:19 PM »

God died on the Cross.

It's a bit challenging for us in our way of thinking to accept some things without getting a little uneasy. Remember, it is the Muslims who claim that Jesus did not die on the Cross, but somehow appeared to die on the Cross. Some of them say it was a vision, but not real, other Mohammedans say that it looked like Jesus but wasn't really him, others say that someone took his place. They have various versions, but they come down to a denial of the Church's teaching, that God died on the Cross.

We have theologians who speculate that it was not absolutely necessary for Jesus to die on the Cross, for even one drop of his most precious Blood would be sufficient to redeem a thousand worlds. But that Jesus chose to suffer and die for our redemption, and this shows his infinite love for us, as it was something that he did out of free choice, and God's will.

God endured death on the Cross, and then, resurrected, shows us that he has conquered death, that we might learn this way that eternal salvation is victory over eternal death.

It is very popular these days for people to laugh at hell, or to pretend that it's not important. This is a huge accomplishment of the devil. How foolish it is for man to scoff at hell and refuse to believe the revelation of God, for it is only in this short lifetime that we have, when we can grow in grace, by doing penance and believing what we have been given at such a price, the blood of martyrs and of Jesus crucified. For once we have died, it's too late then, and we will face eternity with the consequence of our folly.

Now is the time of salvation!

Malleus 01 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 08, 2012, 02:01:27 PM »

Quote from: TKGS

Jesus has two natures. This is Catholic Dogma. He is equal to God with respect to his divinity; he is less than god with respect to his humanity (from the Athanasian Creed).

Thus, with respect to his divine nature, Jesus is eternal.

With respect to his human nature, Jesus, having been resurrected, is immortal.

"Holy Immortal One" is a proper title of God more common in the Eastern Rites than in the West, though, if I'm not mistaken, the Latin Rite uses this term on Good Friday. This being said, the Divine Mercy devotion of Sister Faustina should be avoided due to its condemnation by the Holy Office when the Catholic faith still held sway in Rome.

In answer to the original question, Jesus is both eternal and immortal.

Hypostatic Union, a theological term used with reference to the Incarnation to express the revealed truth that in Christ one person subsists in two natures, the Divine and the human. Hypostasis (upostasis) means, literally, that which lies beneath as basis or foundation. Hence it came to be used by the Greek philosophers to denote reality as distinguished from appearances (Aristotle, "Mund.", IV, 21). It occurs also in St. Paul's Epistles (II Cor., ix, 4; xi, 17; Heb., i, 3: iii, 14), but not in the sense of person. Previous to the Council of Nicaea (325) hypostasis was synonymous with ousia, and even St. Augustine (De Trin., V, 8) avers that he sees no difference between them. The distinction in fact was brought about gradually in the course of the controversies to which the Christological heresies gave rise, and was definitively established by the Council of Chalcedon (451), which declared that in Christ the two natures, each retaining its own properties, are united in one subsistence and one person (eis en prosopon kai mian upostasin)

Brian · « **Reply #7 on:** May 08, 2012, 08:31:34 PM »

Quote from: Deliveringit1

However, it doesn't seem right to claim Jesus is immortal since he was never a mortal(human being). Jesus had a human nature, but remained Divine in "person" and in 'being". That being said, it seems that only the term Eternal can apply to Jesus since Jesus had no beginning, has no end, and was never a mortal.

I'm sorry, but you are quite mistaken. Our Lord is a human being. He is fully man. He has a human nature and a Divine nature. If He isn't mortal, He could not have died. But he did die, didn't He? Or are you saying He didn't experience a mortal death on the Cross, that He just seemed to be dead, feigning death, as it were?

Mortal comes from the Latin, mors, meaning death. A mortal experiences death. He took on a mortal, flesh body, meaning that it would die. On the third day, His human soul reentered his dead, mortal, flesh body and it became reanimated, and 40 days later He ascended into Heaven. On the last day, our immortal souls will reenter and animate our mortal bodies, and we will be judged. If you deny Our Lord's humanity, you will be cast into the pit prepared for Satan and his minions. This is the heresy of monothelitism, the denial of Our Lord's human nature. Just thought I'd let you know.

Pax Christie,

Brian

Trad121 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 09, 2012, 08:33:55 PM »

I was just browsing the net, and I ran across this thread here. I don't think anyone mentioned this yet: Jesus' human nature was created. If it were not, He would not be true man.

That's all. I signed up just to make this one post. I hope I did not break any etiquette by doing so.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #9 on:** May 10, 2012, 02:42:26 AM »

Quote from: Trad121

I was just browsing the net, and I ran across this thread here. I don't think anyone mentioned this yet: Jesus' human nature was created. If it were not, He would not be true man.

That's all. I signed up just to make this one post. I hope I did not break any etiquette by doing so.

I think you may be right, nobody has mentioned that the human nature of Jesus was created. He "became man" at a point in time (the Annunciation) but He always was, is now, and ever shall be God.

BTW Welcome!

Quote from: Brian

Quote from: Deliveringit1
However, it doesn't seem right to claim Jesus is immortal since he was never a mortal(human being). Jesus had a human nature, but remained Divine in "person" and in "being." That being said, it seems that only the term Eternal can apply to Jesus since Jesus had no beginning, has no end, and was never a mortal.

I'm sorry, but you are quite mistaken. Our Lord is a human being. He is fully man. He has a human nature and a Divine nature. If He isn't mortal, He could not have died. But he did die, didn't He? Or are you saying He didn't experience a mortal death on the Cross, that He just seemed to be dead, feigning death, as it were?

Mortal comes from the Latin, mors, meaning death. A mortal experiences death. He took on a mortal, flesh body, meaning that it would die. On the third day, His human soul reentered his dead, mortal, flesh body and it became reanimated, and 40 days later He ascended into Heaven. On the last day, our immortal souls will reenter and animate our mortal bodies, and we will be judged. If you deny Our Lord's humanity, you will be cast into the pit prepared for Satan and his minions. This is the heresy of monothelitism, the denial of Our Lord's human nature. Just thought I'd let you know.

Pax Christie,

Brian

This post by Deliveringit1 is a great example of the confusion wrought in the wake of the unclean spirit of Vatican II. In an attempt to mollify the heretics, the English version of the Creed for Sunday Novus Ordo services was changed sometime in the early 1970's; "We believe..." was followed by "...one in being with the Father." Those were mistakes, and note, they have been corrected as of November 2011. Now it says "I believe..." and "...consubstantial with the Father." There is a world of difference between one in being and consubstantial.

The post above has remained Divine in "person" and in "being." Jesus remained a fully divine person and a fully human person. There is no separation between his human nature and divine nature, but we can distinguish between them. They are possessed by one person. We call this unity of person the Hypostatic Union. His divinity is consubstantial with the other 2 Persons of the Blessed Trinity. The divinity of Christ is not something we can separate, but we can distinguish it. To say "divine in being" is inviting confusion and error, or at least misunderstanding.

Brian is correct in saying that Jesus was mortal. He was mortal by choice, and he then became immortal. If he was not once mortal he could not have died on the cross. But just as his divine nature took on a human nature at his incarnation, so too his mortal human nature took on immortality at his resurrection, and we are promised the same thing at the resurrection of the dead. Our bodies, our flesh, shall rise again from the dead on the last day.

The mistake of saying that Jesus had no beginning and was not mortal is rooted in the mistake of saying that he is "one in being with the Father." The Father is not the Son, and the Son is not the Holy Ghost, and the Holy Ghost is not the Father.

A half truth is a whole lie.

Jesus is NOT one in being with the Father.
Jesus IS consubstantial with the Father.