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Author Topic: Is it permitted for a Catholic NOT to call a saint a saint  (Read 935 times)

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Offline cassini

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  • The question is in the subject. There are post-Vatican II canonised saints that I never refer to as saints. For example, I never refer to Pope John Paul II as Saint John Paul; II. For me, a saint is one who has been a 100% traditional Catholic in everything. Are there any rules that make it compulsory in any way to address someone like Cardinal Newman as a Catholic saint?


    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Is it permitted for a Catholic NOT to call a saint a saint
    « Reply #1 on: May 27, 2023, 07:37:43 PM »
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  • The question is in the subject. There are post-Vatican II canonised saints that I never refer to as saints. For example, I never refer to Pope John Paul II as Saint John Paul; II. For me, a saint is one who has been a 100% traditional Catholic in everything. Are there any rules that make it compulsory in any way to address someone like Cardinal Newman as a Catholic saint?
    I don't believe that the V2 church or V2 'Popes' have any authority, lest the Church defect and teach error, and lead souls to hell. I don't see how JP2 could be a Saint when he prayed with false religions...


    Offline Kephapaulos

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    Re: Is it permitted for a Catholic NOT to call a saint a saint
    « Reply #2 on: May 27, 2023, 09:32:29 PM »
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  • Dogmatic ѕυιcιdє – canonizations, infallibility and the consequences


    https://wmreview.co.uk/2021/06/10/dogmatic-ѕυιcιdє-on-canonizations-and-why-we-must-accept-that-they-are-infallible-regardless-of-the-consequences/
    "Non nobis, Domine, non nobis; sed nomini tuo da gloriam..." (Ps. 113:9)

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Is it permitted for a Catholic NOT to call a saint a saint
    « Reply #3 on: May 27, 2023, 11:07:28 PM »
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  • Generally, yes, it would be wrong for a Catholic not to call a saint a saint.  In fact, the solemn canonization formula orders that the entire Church render due veneration to the canonized saint.  And it's actually a very strong argument against the legitimacy of the V2 papal claimants that they've made bogus canonizations.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Is it permitted for a Catholic NOT to call a saint a saint
    « Reply #4 on: May 28, 2023, 11:56:39 AM »
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  • JP2 is a saint of the Conciliar Church, not the Catholic Church. The two sometimes share persons, or even real estate. But the two are wholly distinct from one another. Like oil in water in a vessel, they can be forced together in the same location, but they never truly mix.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Is it permitted for a Catholic NOT to call a saint a saint
    « Reply #5 on: May 28, 2023, 12:24:14 PM »
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  • JP2 is a saint of the Conciliar Church, not the Catholic Church. The two sometimes share persons, or even real estate. But the two are wholly distinct from one another. Like oil in water in a vessel, they can be forced together in the same location, but they never truly mix.

    And St. Pius X was the first Pope canonized in the nearly 400 years since St. Pius V.  But now we have this astonishing run of saint-popes not seen since the days of the Pope martyrs in the early Church, Saint Roncalli, Saint Montini, Saint Wojtyla.  They're working on beatifying Luciani (JP I) also for his 33 days in office.  With such a line of saintly popes, we should be experiencing the greatest renewal of the Church since the Counter-Reformation.  But, alas, somehow we've witnessed the greatest destruction and decay in Church history.  Imagine how bad it would have been had we not had these saint popes.  It reminds of when people died of the jab and people would say that at least they were saved from COVID by the jab.

    These are obviously political canonizations, basically an attempt to canonize Vatican II itself.  Most V2-era canonizations have been political in nature, and we have a plethora of affirmative-action "saints" now in the V2 pantheon.

    Online SimpleMan

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    Re: Is it permitted for a Catholic NOT to call a saint a saint
    « Reply #6 on: May 28, 2023, 01:25:40 PM »
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  • Generally, yes, it would be wrong for a Catholic not to call a saint a saint.  In fact, the solemn canonization formula orders that the entire Church render due veneration to the canonized saint.  And it's actually a very strong argument against the legitimacy of the V2 papal claimants that they've made bogus canonizations.
    But you hear St Thomas Aquinas referred to as "Aquinas" all the time, ditto for Peter, Paul, and so on.  Prescinding from whether a canonization is valid or not (due to a school of thought that says post-Vatican II canonizations are bogus), so far as I am aware, there is no strict requirement to refer to saints by the title "Saint".  Even in the Roman Canon, the various saints and martyrs are named without interposing "Saint" before each name, and the appellation "St Mary" isn't normally used except for names of churches, hospitals, schools, and so on.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Is it permitted for a Catholic NOT to call a saint a saint
    « Reply #7 on: May 28, 2023, 01:44:40 PM »
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  • But you hear St Thomas Aquinas referred to as "Aquinas" all the time, ditto for Peter, Paul, and so on.  Prescinding from whether a canonization is valid or not (due to a school of thought that says post-Vatican II canonizations are bogus), so far as I am aware, there is no strict requirement to refer to saints by the title "Saint".  Even in the Roman Canon, the various saints and martyrs are named without interposing "Saint" before each name, and the appellation "St Mary" isn't normally used except for names of churches, hospitals, schools, and so on.

    I don't believe that's what OP meant.  I think that the question was more whether we're required to regard them as saints.  It's done often out of shorthand to simply refer to Aquinas, Bellarmine, Augustine, et al.


    Online SimpleMan

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    Re: Is it permitted for a Catholic NOT to call a saint a saint
    « Reply #8 on: May 28, 2023, 05:43:13 PM »
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  • I don't believe that's what OP meant.  I think that the question was more whether we're required to regard them as saints.  It's done often out of shorthand to simply refer to Aquinas, Bellarmine, Augustine, et al.

    Okay, I see.  I've noticed among "conservative Novus Ordo" types that they incessantly hammer away at "Pope St John Paul II" (or even "Pope St John Paul II The Great"), "St Mother Teresa", "St Padre Pio", and so on, as if to imply "these modern saints are the most attention-worthy saints" (or something like that).  Even among pre-Vatican II canonized saints, I refer to them as "Saint So-and-So", or not, depending upon context and awkwardness.  It would take purist pedantry bordering on scrupulosity to refer to "Saint Joan of Arc Kidney Beans".