Poche, Nobody here owes you any answers.

You have been publicly docuмented as a willful, habitual liar and blasphemer.

You have not publicly repented all your lies and blasphemy that were condemned by Matthew.

You have not made public reparation for your lies and blasphemy.

You owe us a firm purpose of amendment and reparation.

[snip]…

3. Claiming Pope Francis did or said something he did not
The truth doesn't need you to "modify", spin, or twist it. State the truth simply and let the chips fall where they may. You never know, it might open your eyes to the truth in other areas as well. Willfully deceiving yourself, or accepting a lie in place of the truth, eventually leads to a complete inability to perceive the truth. In the end, the miserable soul can even worship satan (the father of lies) in place of God (who is Truth).

4. Claiming there is no Crisis in the Church, Pope St. Pius X had basically the same stance on the Jews/тαℓмυd as Pope Francis, etc.
I allow members to deal with the Crisis in the Church according to their own lights, prudence, and conscience. However, denying the Crisis altogether puts you completely outside the Traditional Catholic movement. This is a Traditional Catholic forum. If you want to ask questions of the many well informed and educated Catholics here, be my guest. But you must respect the Traditional Catholic beliefs and position. Even many conservative Novus Ordo Catholics know that Pope Francis is a different kind of Pope (in a bad way) than good old popes like St. Pius X. Even many who choose to say in the Novus Ordo acknowledge there is a huge Crisis in the Church.

5. Failure to acknowledge some actual errors in the modern Catholic Church, for example the post-Vatican II errors on the Jews ("Elder brothers in the Church", "Their covenant is still valid", "They don't need to convert") which is in direct contradiction to pre-Vatican II Popes, including St. Peter: "Therefore let all the house of Israel know most certainly, that God hath made both Lord and Christ, this same Jesus, whom you have crucified. Now when they had heard these things, they had compunction in their heart, and said to Peter, and to the rest of the apostles: What shall we do, men and brethren? But Peter said to them: Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is to you, and to your children, and to all that are far off, whomsoever the Lord our God shall call. And with very many other words did he testify and exhort them, saying: Save yourselves from this perverse generation." (Acts 2:36-40)


This is a formal warning for Poche, that he cease posting these errors on CathInfo and abide by the forum rules as I have described them. Failure to comply could result in further moderator action(s). 

CathInfo members are encouraged to report any violations of these rules, by Poche or any other member. Please use the "Report to Moderator" link in the lower-right corner of each post, send me a PM, or e-mail me: matthew at cathinfo dot com.

And, finally, there's no indication in the Declaration that they are even sedevacantists.  They merely say that they are withdrawing from him ... almost along the lines of Father Chazal's sede-impoundism.

It is much more likely that this group would condemn sedevacantists. 

As far as it goes, I think it's good to preach the Faith, and condemn all the errors opposed to it, as these hermits did; but as to presumptions and judgments about the Pope's pertinacity, that is really beyond the competence of either laymen or hermits, and falls solely to the Bishops of the Church; who, beside the Pope, are by divine law, the only judges in such matters. One could have submitted a list of the Pope's errors, and given it to the Bishops to judge; trusting that the Holy Ghost would take it from there.

With the exception of that small handful of Cardinals, these so-called "bishops" (assuming they're even valid) are complicit in the heresies and/or cowards.  Very few of them actually have enough faith to be considered competent "judges in such matters".

Bergoglio has been admonished multiple times about the heresy in Amoris Laetitia and has ignored these admonitions, and doubled down on the heretical interpretation.  There's no doubt but that Bergoglio is a pertinacious heretic.

Where is Faith in the Divine Promise to the Church, and Trust in the Perpetual Guidance of the Holy Spirit promised to the Bishops in such opinions?

This Conciliar establishment is not the Catholic Church but a false religion.  Despite what +Fellay claimed, this is NOT the "one, holy, Catholic, and Apostolic" Church.  In fact, the Conciliar establishment decidedly lacks those notes.  It is so riddled with heresy that it's lost the oneness (there's no unity of faith and morals).  By their own numbers, 95%+ of Novus Ordo pew sitters are heretics.  Where's the holiness, where Bergoglio now approves of corrupt morals (cohabitation and adultery), approves of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity, condones abortion, has covered up the crimes of various pedophiles?  Where's the holiness in the Church's official prayer, the New Mass?  So both in practice and in moral teaching (which is completely relativist), the holiness is not there.  Catholic?  Where's the continuity with the Church of Tradition, which is required for it to be catholic?  Same question for Apostolic?  There's only a material continuity, which does not suffice for Apostolicity?

So +Fellay is a liar in pretending that this Conciliar establishment is the same "one, holy, catholic, and apostolic" Church.  It completely lacks any of those marks.

Catholics have been confused by modern theories about so-called and misapplied "material continuity". Just see how the CE explains it.

"Apostolicity is the mark by which the Church of today is recognized as identical with the Church founded by Jesus Christ upon the Apostles. It is of great importance because it is the surest indication of the true Church of Christ, it is most easily examined, and it virtually contains the other three marks, namely, Unity, Sanctity, and Catholicity ...  

Apostolicity of mission is a guarantee of Apostolicity of doctrine. St. Irenæus (Adv. Haeres, IV, xxvi, n. 2) says: "Wherefore we must obey the priests [i.e. the Bishops; high priests] of the Church who have succession from the Apostles, as we have shown, who, together with succession in the episcopate, have received the certain mark of truth according to the will of the Father; all others, however, are to be suspected, who separated themselves from the principal succession" ...  An authoritative mission to teach is absolutely necessary, a man-given mission is not authoritative. Hence any concept of Apostolicity that excludes authoritative union with the Apostolic mission robs the ministry of its Divine character.

Apostolicity, or Apostolic succession, then, means that the mission conferred by Jesus Christ upon the Apostles must pass from then to their legitimate successors, in an unbroken line, until the end of the world. This notion of Apostolicity is evolved from the words of Christ Himself, the practice of the Apostles, and the teaching of the Fathers and theologians of the Church ... Billuart (III, 306) concludes his remarks on Apostolicity in the words of St. Jerome: "We must abide in that Church, which was founded by the Apostles, and endures to this day.: Mazella (De Relig. et Eccl., 359), after speaking of Apostolic succession as an uninterrupted substitution of persons in the place of the Apostles, insists upon the necessity of jurisdiction or authoritative transmission, thus excluding the hypothesis that a new mission could ever be originated by anyone in the place of the mission bestowed by Christ and transmitted in the manner described ...

The history of the Catholic Church from St. Peter, the first Pontiff, to the present Head of the Church, is an evident proof of its Apostolicity ... Apostolicity is not found in any other Church. This is a necessary consequence of the unity of the Church. If there is but one true Church, and if the Catholic Church, as has just been shown, is Apostolic, the necessary inference is that no other Church is Apostolic." http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01648b.htm Hence, there is only one, easily discovered, Apostolic Church. And there alone you will find the Apostolic Hierarchy. And the Charism of Indefectibility in Catholic Doctrine is guaranteed there.

Here's the Truth: "material continuity" in the sense meant by modern sedeprivationists was historically applied by the Catholic Church to the Greek Orthodox Church. But the Greek Orthodox is a defected and schismatic Church that lacks Apostolicity. Hence, to try and apply the principles that were traditionally applied to the Greek Church to the Roman Church is nothing else than to say the Roman Church has defected and lost Apostolicity and become schismatic; all of which is simply impossible and a wrong application.

Don't shoot the messenger; but there it is

Sanctity/Holiness (from the Catholic Encyclopedia):

To show that the Church possesses the note of holiness it suffices to establish that her teaching is holy .... In regard to her doctrines, it is manifest that the moral law which she proposes as of Divine obligation, is more lofty and more exacting than that which any of the sects has ventured to require. Her vindication of the indissolubility of marriage in the face of a licentious world affords the most conspicuous instance of this. She alone maintains in its integrity her Master's teaching on marriage. Every other religious body without exception has given place to the demands of human passion.

Well, Bergoglio threw that mark out the window with Amoris Laetitia.

The holiness of the Church's worship is recognized even by the world outside the Church. In the solemn renewal of the Sacrifice of Calvary there lies a mysterious power, which all are forced to own. Even enemies of the Church realize the sanctity of the Mass.

Yes, everyone is so moved to realize the sanctity of the Mass as exhibited in the liturgical abominations that abound throughout the Conciliar establishment.  People everywhere witness to the "mysterious power" of clown masses, liturgical dance, and guitar masses.