Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3 4

Author Topic: Is Francis the Pope?  (Read 3937 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline cassini

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3298
  • Reputation: +2083/-236
  • Gender: Male
Is Francis the Pope?
« on: October 31, 2019, 06:35:22 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • A friend sent this on to me. It is a position I have held for many years. Material heresy and formal heresy have been involved in the Galileo case, a study I have devoted much time to. In the article the author says: 'As bishop Schneider points out, this question is unprecedented in the history of the Church.' Now this may be true as regards the overall behaviour of a pope, it is not regarding heretical popes. Pope Paul V in 1616 had defined heliocentrism formal heresy. Pope Pius VII in 1820 was conned into material heresy when allowing a heretical reading of Scripture. As this article records, no pope will be allowed by God to officially deny an official dogma or decree of a previous pope. When researching the Galileo case I found no such denial of the 1616 decree by any pope since 1616. Quite the opposite, even the Church of 1820 agreed it was papal and not reversible.

    The following article will help many come to terms with the prevailing situation in the Churcvh.

    [font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif]https://onepeterfive.com/is-francis-the-pope/[/font][/url]




    Logged

    Online Quo vadis Domine

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 4189
    • Reputation: +2432/-557
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is Francis the Pope?
    « Reply #1 on: October 31, 2019, 07:01:20 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • I hold that the geocentric model is true, but can you please give me this reference: “ Pope Paul V in 1616 had defined heliocentrism formal heresy”?
    Logged
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Mark 79

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 9544
    • Reputation: +6256/-940
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is Francis the Pope?
    « Reply #2 on: October 31, 2019, 12:51:03 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
    • "We say we want suffering, but whenever suffering comes that isn’t exactly the type we desire, we flee from it."


    Prayer of St. Augustine

    Before Thy eyes, O Lord, we bring our offences, and we compare them with the stripes we have received.
    If we consider the evil we have wrought, what we suffer is little, what we deserve is great.
    What we have committed is very grave, what we have suffered is very slight.
    We feel the punishment of sin, yet withdraw not from the obstinacy of sinning.
    Under Thy lash our inconstancy is visited, but our sinfulness is not changed.
    Our suffering soul is tormented but our neck is not bent.
    Our life groans under sorrow, yet mends not in deed.
    If Thou spare us we correct not our ways; if Thou punish we cannot endure it.
    In time of correction we confess our wrong-doing; after Thy visitation we forget that we have wept.
    If Thou stretchest forth Thy hand we promise amendment; if Thou withholdest the sword we keep not our promise.
    If Thou strikest we cry out for mercy; if Thou sparest we again provoke Thee to strike.
    Here we are before Thee, O Lord, shameless criminals; we know that unless Thou pardon we shall deservedly perish.
    Grant then, O almighty Father, without our deserving it, the pardon we ask for; Thou who madest out of nothing those who ask Thee. Through Christ our Lord. Amen.
    Let us pray
    O God, who by sin art offended and by penance pacified, mercifully regard the prayers of Thy suppliant people, and turn away the scourges of Thy wrath, which we deserve for our sins. Through Christ our Lord. Amen.
    Logged

    Offline cassini

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3298
    • Reputation: +2083/-236
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is Francis the Pope?
    « Reply #3 on: October 31, 2019, 12:57:29 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on October 31, 2019, 07:01:20 AM
    I hold that the geocentric model is true, but can you please give me this reference: “ Pope Paul V in 1616 had defined heliocentrism formal heresy”?

    My reference to this Quo Vadis was to emphasise that MATERIAL heresy, mentioned in the above wonderful article, has a precedence with popes in history from 1820. Material heresy is not a deliberate rejection of a teaching, but one believed in ignorance. A pope guilty of material heresy cannot be accused of being a non-pope. There is no punishment due for material heresy on death.

    I added this subject up in reply to those sceptics today who continue to accept the Galilean heresy in spite of being told the truth of the matter. When told many times I have been accused like this: " Are you saying popes since 1820 have been heretics. If so, we haven't had a true pope since 1820 at least." The Dimond brothers for example, who are illegal sedevacvantists, say since Vatican II all the popes are heretics so declared them non-popes to anyone reading their literature.

    If they have to face heretical popes since 1820 then their conclusions become redundant. That is why the Dimond brothers and others reject the 1616 decree of Pope Paul V as binding, a decree that was confirned as absolute in 1633 by Pope Urban VIII and the Holy Office in 1820. Here is the reference to that decree issued through the Index on Feb 24th, 1616:

    (1) “That the sun is in the centre of the world and altogether immovable by local movement,” was unanimously declared to be “foolish, philosophically absurd, and formally heretical [denial of a revelation by God] inasmuch as it expressly contradicts the declarations of Holy Scripture in many passages, according to the proper meaning of the language used, and the sense in which they have been expounded and understood by [all] the Fathers and theologians.”
    Logged

    Offline klasG4e

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2307
    • Reputation: +1344/-235
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is Francis the Pope?
    « Reply #4 on: November 01, 2019, 07:49:17 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: cassini on October 31, 2019, 12:57:29 PM
    There is no punishment due for material heresy on death.


    Although, of course, we must not fail to recognize the administration of God's justice for culpable ignorance of certain things, if indeed culpable ignorance was existent.
    Logged

    Offline Conspiracy_Factist

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 598
    • Reputation: +157/-19
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is Francis the Pope?
    « Reply #5 on: November 03, 2019, 07:52:38 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
    • NO
    Logged

    Offline poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16730
    • Reputation: +1218/-4688
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is Francis the Pope?
    « Reply #6 on: November 04, 2019, 08:36:10 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: cassini on October 31, 2019, 06:35:22 AM
    A friend sent this on to me. It is a position I have held for many years. Material heresy and formal heresy have been involved in the Galileo case, a study I have devoted much time to. In the article the author says: 'As bishop Schneider points out, this question is unprecedented in the history of the Church.' Now this may be true as regards the overall behaviour of a pope, it is not regarding heretical popes. Pope Paul V in 1616 had defined heliocentrism formal heresy. Pope Pius VII in 1820 was conned into material heresy when allowing a heretical reading of Scripture. As this article records, no pope will be allowed by God to officially deny an official dogma or decree of a previous pope. When researching the Galileo case I found no such denial of the 1616 decree by any pope since 1616. Quite the opposite, even the Church of 1820 agreed it was papal and not reversible.

    The following article will help many come to terms with the prevailing situation in the Churcvh.

    [font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif]https://onepeterfive.com/is-francis-the-pope/[/font][/url]
    The problem you have is who is competent to sit in judgement? The Code of Canon Law says the following; 

    Can. 1404 The First See is judged by no one.

    http://www.vatican.va/archive/cod-iuris-canonici/eng/docuмents/cic_lib7-cann1400-1500_en.html#TITLE_I.
    Logged

    Offline Don Paolo

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 481
    • Reputation: +90/-108
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is Francis the Pope?
    « Reply #7 on: November 04, 2019, 09:33:20 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Geocentrism was never dogmatically defined, nor was heliocentrism defined ex cathedra to be formally heretical. First, heliocentrists do not hold, 《“That the sun is in the centre of the world and altogether immovable by local movement,”》Modern heliocentrism only professes the sun to be at the center of the solar system; and not the center of the universe, as was profesded by heliocentrists in Galileo's day. Secondly, the cited docuмent is not a magisterial dogmatic constitution but a disciplinary decree addressed to tribunals and nunciatures. It is quite simply not an ex cathedra definition.
    Logged

    Offline roscoe

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 7610
    • Reputation: +617/-404
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is Francis the Pope?
    « Reply #8 on: November 04, 2019, 10:40:30 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • E rev around S :cheers:
    Logged
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16730
    • Reputation: +1218/-4688
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is Francis the Pope?
    « Reply #9 on: November 07, 2019, 01:06:57 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
    • In 2013 there was a conclave. White smoke appeared coming out the chimney. The dean of cardinals appeared at the window and said the words, "Habemus Papam..." Then out came the old Cardinal Bergoglio, now known as Pope Francis. 
    Logged

    Offline Mark 79

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 9544
    • Reputation: +6256/-940
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is Francis the Pope?
    « Reply #10 on: November 07, 2019, 01:40:57 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • There are three lines of argument that Bergoglio cannot be a true Pope:

     
     
    Shortly before he died in 1226 A.D., St. Francis of Assisi prophesied that:
     
    “A man, not canonically elected, will be raised to the pontificate… In those days Jesus Christ will send them not a true pastor, but a destroyer.”
    http://www.novusordowatch.org/francis.htm
     
     
    “A man that is a heretic, after the first and second admonition, avoid: Knowing that he, that is such an one, is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned by his own judgment.”
    Titus 3:10-11
     
     
    Destroyer • Heretic
     
    Bergoglio was a pertinacious public heretic years before the 2013 Conclave
    https://fromrome.wordpress.com/2017/09/08/bergoglio-was-a-pertinacious-public-heretic-years-before-the-2013-conclave/
     
    “Team Bergoglio” is a heretical conspiracy to overthrow the Church of Christ
    https://fromrome.wordpress.com/2015/02/10/team-bergoglio-is-a-heretical-conspiracy-to-overthrow-the-church-of-christ/
     
    Bergoglio’s Heretical Past is Francis’ Present (only the Spanish language original survives)
    https://youtu.be/DsnI4q6GsFU
     
    Francis re-defrocks fellow Novus Ordo priest in the name of defending Orthodox Judaism
    http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2017/07/francis-re-defrocks-fellow-novus-ordo.html
     
    Francis and the Shekinah
    http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2014/05/francis-shekinah.html
     
    Teachings of [Jorge Bergoglio] compared to past Church Teaching
    http://francisquotes.com
     
    Francis  promotes the 620 noahide laws
    http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2017/06/francis-is-onboard-with-noahide-program.html
     
     
    Why Francis Must Not Be Considered The Pope
    Logged

    Offline cath4ever

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 126
    • Reputation: +77/-19
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is Francis the Pope?
    « Reply #11 on: November 07, 2019, 07:36:20 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: poche on November 07, 2019, 04:55:39 AM
    "And the gates of Hell shall not prevail against you" -Jesus to Peter
    That is not an accurate quote. The Douay-Rheims (and every other Bible I know of) says "shall not prevail against it", meaning the Church herself, not St. Peter himself in this case.
    Logged

    Offline Don Paolo

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 481
    • Reputation: +90/-108
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is Francis the Pope?
    « Reply #12 on: November 07, 2019, 07:53:51 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Elsewhere I have written:

    «Citing the work of Da Silveira, Don Curzio Nitoglia explains that the first opinion, that a pope cannot be a heretic, is the one that is most commonly taught as the most probable by the majority of theologians and Doctors: Bellarmine, Francisco Suárez, Melchior Cano, Domingo Soto, John of St. Thomas, Juan de Torquemada, Louis Billot, Joachim Salaverri, A. Maria Vellico, Charles Journet (and Cajetan who is not cited by Da Silveira, but is demonstrated by Msgr. Vittorio Mondello in La dottrina del Gaetano sul Romano Pontefice, Messina, Istituto Arti Grafiche di Sicilia, 1965, cap. V, pp. 163-194 e cap. VI, pp. 195-224). ... Bordoni, who held the opinion to be “very probable”, cites Suárez, Pedro de Simanca, Domingo Bañez, and Bellarmine to be of this opinion; and mentions that Bonacina, cites others who were of the same opinion, explaining that they (as well as he) based their opinion on the belief that the words, Ut non deficiat fides tua were spoken simpliciter, and therefore without distinction between the public or the private person. Bordoni also argued extensively on the notable disputed cases proving that none of those popes was a formal heretic. [...] Opinion No. 1 is founded on the words of Christ Himself who prayed that the Pontiff’s faith not fail. Pope Innocent III and St. Robert Bellarmine based their teaching that the pope cannot become a heretic on the foundation of that scripture passage. Since Vatican I taught on the basis of that passage that the grace is given to the pope lest his fail, precisely so that he may be able to define infallibly; the First Opinion, namely, that the pope cannot fall into formal heresy, has become “commonly taught as the most probable”, as Don Curzio attests. Fr Gleize states on the question, “Can a pope fall into heresy?”: “In fact, the negative answer to this question is the common opinion of theologians of the modern era.” However, in order to deceive their readers into believing that their contrary opinion represents the mind of the Church, and seduce them into thinking the opposite opinion is the common opinion, Salza & Siscoe falsely state on page 191 of their screed: “It is the common opinion among theologians that a Pope can fall into personal heresy (internally), and even public and notorious heresy (externally).”»         
    Logged

    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6173
    • Reputation: +3147/-2941
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Is Francis the Pope?
    « Reply #13 on: November 07, 2019, 08:18:12 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Can you please cite a source and link for the view that Dom Curzio Nitoglia believes that the Pope cannot be a heretic?

    Dom Curzio Nitoglia changed his views years ago, and is no longer a sedeprivationist. Here's an article posted five months ago on this forum, which gives a more current view of Fr. Nitoglia:

    https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/deposing-the-pope-by-fr-curzio-nitoglia/
    Logged
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Don Paolo

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 481
    • Reputation: +90/-108
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is Francis the Pope?
    « Reply #14 on: November 07, 2019, 08:34:09 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Sources and links are provided in my book, To Deceive the Elect, Volume One. Don Curzio in the cited passage treats of a specific point of doctrine, to wit, that the common opinion of theoligians is that a valid pope cannot be a formal heretic. The article is posted on his website. He has not deviated from this position; and whether or not he has changed his position as a sedeprivationist is totally irrelevant to this point of doctrine. 
    Logged
    Pages: [1] 2 3 4
    « previous next »