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Author Topic: Is Francis the Pope?  (Read 8800 times)

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Re: Is Francis the Pope?
« Reply #40 on: December 29, 2019, 10:27:15 AM »
In the last analysis, what matters is not what Michael Davies was thinking, but only the sacramental doctrine of the Church. The new rite of ordination uses an unquestionably valid centuries old sacramental form that was eventually discarded in favour of the one form which became standard throughout the Latin Patriarchate. It is not defective. Therefore, the new rite does not suffer a "defect of form" as did Parker's Anglican rite, which destroyed the validity of Anglican orders, as Leo XII taught in Apostolicæ Curæ.

Re: Is Francis the Pope?
« Reply #41 on: December 29, 2019, 10:28:13 AM »
DID YOU READ THE FIRST OR SECOND EDITION?
It is reported that he drew different conclusions in the editions. I have tried to buy a FIRST edition, but, even when advertised as a FIRST edition, I received the second edition.

Now that’s interesting.

Not sure which edition I have (not home right now), but it is 20 years-old, at least.

When was the 2nd edition published?

In any case, I would not be surprised if Michael Davies later edited this book in a new edition to bring it around to conciliarism.

He did this very thing in the new edition of Pope John’s Council (published by Angelus Press), which contains many conciliar adaptations (eg., defense of Dominus Iesus, declaring they Orthodox possess apostolicity, etc.).

The SSPX wanted to make it seem as though Davies had left the indult and returned to tradition toward the end of his life, but the reality was that the SSPX was moving in his direction, and therefore proliferating his conciliarized books.

Then of course the SSPX has sneakily been modifying other books toward the same end (eg., no longer including active participation in the NOM in the examination of conscience of Christian Warfare, while injecting the conciliar Divine Mercy devotion into the same revision.  Meanwhile, it’s German bookstores sell materials by Ratzinger, Schneider, and even von Balthasar (while other volumes omit the “St.” title from the books by saints, etc).


Re: Is Francis the Pope?
« Reply #42 on: December 29, 2019, 10:28:37 AM »
In the last analysis, what matters is not what Michael Davies was thinking, but only the sacramental doctrine of the Church. The new rite of ordination uses an unquestionably valid centuries old sacramental form that was eventually discarded in favour of the one form which became standard throughout the Latin Patriarchate. It is not defective. Therefore, the new rite does not suffer a "defect of form" as did Parker's Anglican rite, which destroyed the validity of Anglican orders, as Leo XIII taught in Apostolicæ Curæ.

Re: Is Francis the Pope?
« Reply #43 on: December 29, 2019, 10:41:52 AM »
Davies’ general thoughts:

http://www.catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/vatican2/ordinal.htm

Note, however, that in this article Davies is merely championing the conciliar 1968 rite of priestly ordination vs the later revised 1989 rite of priestly ordination (which is even worse).

Re: Is Francis the Pope?
« Reply #44 on: December 29, 2019, 11:16:30 AM »
The 1989 is clearly better, though both are valid. What is lacking in the new rite of 1968 is what theology calls the "integrity" of the rite.

From Sean's link: "Needless to say, the authority of the Church is as decisive in affirming the validity of a sacramental rite as in affirming its invalidity. The papal approbation given to the Latin Typical Editions of all the post-conciliar sacramental rites places their validity beyond dispute ...

One of the promises has had words added which do refer specifically to the priestly vocation of offering sacrifice and absolving the faithful from their sins. The additional words are indicated in italic ...

 

Vis mysteria Christi ad laudem Dei et sanctificationem populi christiani, secundum Ecclesiae traditionem, pie et fideliter celebrare?



Are you resolved to celebrate the mysteries of Christ for the glory of God and the sancitification of the Christian people, according to the Tradition of the Church, faithfully and religiously?
 
Vis mysteria Christi ad laudem Dei et sanctificationem populi christiani, secundum Ecclesiae traditionem, praesertim in Eucharistiae sacrificio et sacramento reconciliationis, pie et fideliter celebrare?

Are you resolved to celebrate the mysteries of Christ for the glory of God and the sancitification of the Christian people, according to the Tradition of the Church, especially the Eucharistic Sacrifice and the Sacrament of Reconciliation, faithfully and religiously?

...The proper postcommunion for the Mass of priestly ordination, found on page 207 of the Latin Ordinal, states with admirable clarity that the Divine Victim is offered in the Mass, and employs the word hostia for victim. The use of the word sacerdotes for priests is also welcome:

 

Sacerdotes tuos, Domine, et omnes famulos tuos vivificet divina, quam obtulimus et sumpsimus, hostia, ut, perpetua tibi caritate coniuncti, digne famulari tuae mereantur maiestati.
 
O Lord, may the Divine Victim which we have offered and consumed, bring new life to Thy priests and all Thy servants that, united with Thee in unceasing charity, they may merit worthily to serve Thy Divine majesty.