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Author Topic: Is a quote by St. Francis de Sale too much for R&R?  (Read 332977 times)

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Offline SkidRowCatholic

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Re: Is a quote by St. Francis de Sale too much for R&R?
« Reply #195 on: Today at 12:00:53 PM »
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  • No one but God can read the internal forum with absolute certitude.  A judge declaring a heretic only needs moral certitude.
    Right.

    and a morally certain judgment must be followed. 

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is a quote by St. Francis de Sale too much for R&R?
    « Reply #196 on: Today at 12:01:55 PM »
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  • No one but God can read the internal forum with absolute certitude.  A judge declaring a heretic only needs moral certitude.

    :facepalm: you can't judge the internal forum period, with any kind of certitude.  After I exposed you for the same error on the other thread, you try to salvage it over hear by making pseudo distinction.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is a quote by St. Francis de Sale too much for R&R?
    « Reply #197 on: Today at 12:04:06 PM »
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  • Right.

    and a morally certain judgment must be followed.

    Not right.  Nobody can judge the internal forum with any degree of certitude ... other than someone with a supernatural gift, like a Padre Pio of course.

    We follow judgments regarding the extrenal forum, and the Church can discern a non-pope based on their pertinacious adherence to heresy, whether or not they are in good faith, sincere, insincere, evil Satanists bent on destroying the Church, or well-meaning morons.  What the case there happens to be means nothing, since we cannot know this with any degree of certitude unless these things make it out to the internal forum, i.e. someone intercepts a letter from Wojtyla bragging about how he's serving Satan and trying to destroy the Church.

    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: Is a quote by St. Francis de Sale too much for R&R?
    « Reply #198 on: Today at 12:04:16 PM »
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  • :facepalm: you can't judge the internal forum period, with any kind of certitude.  After I exposed you for the same error on the other thread, you try to salvage it over hear by making pseudo distinction.
    Maybe that is what he meant to say. 

    But it ain't what he said here.

    I took it to mean, "a judge only needs moral certitude of external acts of heresy." You would have to read into it otherwise. But maybe you did call him out before - I know not.

    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: Is a quote by St. Francis de Sale too much for R&R?
    « Reply #199 on: Today at 12:05:38 PM »
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  •  Nobody can judge the internal forum with any degree of certitude ... other than someone with a supernatural gift

    We follow judgments regarding the extrenal forum, and the Church can discern a non-pope based on their pertinacious adherence to heresy, whether or not they are in good faith, sincere, insincere, evil Satanists bent on destroying the Church, or well-meaning morons.  What the case there happens to be means nothing, since we cannot know this with any degree of certitude unless these things make it out to the internal forum, i.e. someone intercepts a letter from Wojtyla bragging about how he's serving Satan and trying to destroy the Church.
    Agreed.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is a quote by St. Francis de Sale too much for R&R?
    « Reply #200 on: Today at 12:08:16 PM »
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  • Maybe that is what he meant to say.

    But it ain't what he said here.

    I took it to mean, "a judge only needs moral certitude of external acts of heresy." You would have to read into it otherwise. But maybe you did call him out before - I know not.

    So, if you know his history, that's not what he meant at all.  He holds that Bergoglio and Prevost are Anti-Popes, but that Ratzinger / Wojtyla were not.  As evidence for Bergoglian heresy he and his guru (Father Kramer) cite (among other things, but this was the first thing Fr. Kramer used to discern Bergoglio to be Anti-Pope) Bergs' denial of the teaching of the Council of Florence by claiming that the Old Testament remains in force, has not been revoked, and is salvific for the Jews.

    So I point out that Wojtyla actually invented this heresy, taught it repeatedly, and then Ratzinger taught it repeatedly, his responds by insisting that those two didn't really mean it ... whereas Bergoglio does.  Ridiculous.  But it's his act of desperation to upholds his theological worldview that the Bergoglio and Prevost are the Crisis in the Church, and Anti-Popes, but the predecessors were not.  If anything, Wojtyla / Ratzinger are likely MORE guilty since Bergoglio is a moron who appears to just regurgitate what the others taught and invented, but those predecessors of his were well educated prior to Vatican II and were the INVENTORS of the heresy, so if anything it's the exact opposite.

    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: Is a quote by St. Francis de Sale too much for R&R?
    « Reply #201 on: Today at 12:09:48 PM »
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  • So, if you know his history, that's not what he meant at all.  He holds that Bergoglio and Prevost are Anti-Popes, but that Ratzinger / Wojtyla were not.  As evidence for Bergoglian heresy he and his guru (Father Kramer) cite (among other things, but this was the first thing Fr. Kramer used to discern Bergoglio to be Anti-Pope) Bergs' denial of the teaching of the Council of Florence by claiming that the Old Testament remains in force, has not been revoked, and is salvific for the Jews.

    So I point out that Wojtyla actually invented this heresy, taught it repeatedly, and then Ratzinger taught it repeatedly, his responds by insisting that those two didn't really mean it ... whereas Bergoglio does.  Ridiculous.  But it's his act of desperation to upholds his theological worldview that the Bergoglio and Prevost are the Crisis in the Church, and Anti-Popes, but the predecessors were not.  If anything, Wojtyla / Ratzinger are likely MORE guilty since Bergoglio is a moron who appears to just regurgitate what the others taught and invented, but those predecessors of his were well educated prior to Vatican II and were the INVENTORS of the heresy, so if anything it's the exact opposite.
    Ok, good to know thanks.