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Author Topic: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?  (Read 10427 times)

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Offline JPaul

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Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
« Reply #60 on: July 17, 2018, 12:07:43 PM »
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  • The Vatican has adopted the principles of the ultra-Modernist VII theologian Rahner, who denied all the validity of dogmas:

    Nothing is ever sacred and safe anymore in this new state of things. Even the Creed itself is at stake:

    He explicitly denies that the Church is the only depository of salvation. Most traditionalists deny this implicitly (some groups being quite explicit about it, though). This thesis of his is officially adopted in Vatican II and taught ever since:


    And no, it has nothing to do with proper BOD/BOB, even though the corruption of the first one was the tool which liberals misused to obliterate the dogma.
    True indeed, and the Sedes and the SSPX are blind to the fact that they do indeed support this kind of deviation from orthodoxy, even if passively with their doctrines of extra-ecclesial salvation. It is the error of our times and in fact, the final and deadly error against the Faith.


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
    « Reply #61 on: July 17, 2018, 12:12:32 PM »
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  • Quote
    And no, it has nothing to do with proper BOD/BOB, even though the corruption of the first one was the tool which liberals misused to obliterate the dogma.
    Yes, it has to do with BOD indirectly, since it was the tool to water-down EENS, the cornerstone of catholicity. 


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
    « Reply #62 on: July 17, 2018, 02:12:05 PM »
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  • .
    The purpose of this post is to focus on the conspicuous omission by the CMRI of one of the 3 dogmatic definitions of EENS.
    And secondly, to raise the question: Why does the CMRI like to keep dogmatic definition out of its readers' minds?
    .
    The CMRI website has something interesting on their Ecuмenism page:
    http://www.cmri.org/02-v2_ecuмenism.shtml
    The Decrees of Vatican II

    Compared with Past Church Teachings

    EcuмENISM
    Past Infallible Church Decrees on Ecuмenism
    .
    .
    [This is a curious way to head the topic, because before Vatican II there was no such meaning, and the word "Ecuмenism" did not exist. Therefore, there are no pre-Vatican II "Decrees on Ecuмenism." Before Vat.II, ecuмenical meant: concerning all the Catholic bishops of the world. Therefore an ecuмenical council (actually spelled oecuмenical because of the Latin root) was a worldwide or universal council; there had been 20 such Oecuмenical Councils of the Church before Vat.II, when Vat.II was presented at its opening as the 21st Oecuмenical Council. Before it was over, however, the "O" had been dropped, and they habitually referred to it as, "The Council," as though it was no longer merely the 21st, but rather the only. In common practice the Councils that preceded Vat.II were to be forgotten, and Trent for example, was only mentioned when looking for a precedent to institute change (based on a lie). They actually said that the "Tridentine Mass" was a new product of Trent (that's a lie), therefore, they said, that the Novus Ordo as a new product of "The Council," was actually following tradition (lie), based on the Tridentine tradition (lie). Numerous articles from the 1970's verify this fact of history. Furthermore, the following two dogmatic definitions (CMRI never utters the term, "dogmatic definition" as if in an attempt to stuff it down the memory hole of 1984) would not be something a reader would expect to find on a page of "EcuмENISM" nor would anyone doing research be likely to find these two dogmas hidden in this particular corner of the website. But to top it off, they have the order reversed, with the last given first and the first given last -- is it in fulfillment of prophesy? (cf. Mark 10:31) and the second not given at all -- why do you suppose that is?]
    .
    .
    Cantate Domino — Pope Eugene IV: The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes, and preaches, that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jєωs arid heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgiving, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.
    .
    Fourth Lateran Council: There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside of which no one at all can be saved.
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    .
    Note: this material is found on a page titled "Ecuмenism" and not "Salvation" or "Dogmatic Definition" or "Necessity of the Church."
    .
    I find this interesting because these two citations are two of the 3 infallible ex cathedra dogmatic definitions of EENS, but are not identified as such. The website has "infallible" in the heading, but that's as far as the CMRI goes with it. The principle of ex cathedra dogma and dogmatic definition is not mentioned.
    .
    Apparently, CMRI doesn't like to say, "dogmatic definition" or "ex cathedra." They're much more interested in using the thing they want to CRITICIZE as the title of the page, even if that title did not exist prior to Vat.II.
    .
    Furthermore, as I said, these two are two of the three such dogmatic definitions. What happened to the third one?
    .
    Well, actually it's the second one. Note also that no date is showing for these two. Apparently the CMRI don't want its readers to learn dates for some reason. What do you suppose that reason would be?
    .
    The first dogmatic definition of EENS, from the Oecuмenical Council Lateran IV in A.D. 1215, given by Pope Innocent III: “There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.” (The CMRI version has, "...can be saved.")
    .
    The second dogmatic definition of EENS, from the Bull Unam Sanctam in A.D. 1302, given by Pope Boniface VIII: “We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”
    .
    Now why, do you suppose, would the CMRI conspicuously omit THAT dogmatic definition?
    .
    And once you have the answer to that question, you might be able to figure out the answer to the next question:
    .
    Why do you suppose the CMRI might like to steer its readers away from the principle of dogmatic definition per se?
    .
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
    « Reply #63 on: July 17, 2018, 02:33:47 PM »
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  • .
    As a point of context, it is helpful to recognize the fact that when Freemasons pick ONE POPE to hold up as their favorite object of ridicule, sometimes even building up an effigy of this Vicar of Christ which they proceed to insult and abuse ceremoniously (they're really big on ceremony!), which pope would you suppose is their favorite whipping boy? Keep in mind, for Freemasons, it isn't the appearance of a man or his mannerisms or his personal habits or preferences of which they take notice. They take notice of what WORDS he SPEAKS and what WORDS he puts down in WRITING.
    .
    Hint: check the previous post for which pope whose words the CMRI likes to ignore.
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    .
    (ETA:  I forgot to include the source data for the THIRD dogmatic definition,  Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, A.D. 1441.)
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    Offline songbird

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    Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
    « Reply #64 on: July 17, 2018, 08:40:14 PM »
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  • Vatican I, defines a true validly nominated pope.  The Holy Catholic Church has had anti-popes before.  We are there.


    Offline Truecharity

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    Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
    « Reply #65 on: July 17, 2018, 11:48:59 PM »
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  • Vatican I, defines a true validly nominated pope.  The Holy Catholic Church has had anti-popes before.  We are there.
    Bull of Pope Paul IV — cuм Ex Apostolatus Officio,1559
    Quote
    “Further, if ever it should appear that any bishop (even one acting as an archbishop, patriarch or primate), or a cardinal of the Roman Church, or a legate (as mentioned above), or even the Roman Pontiff (whether prior to his promotion to cardinal, or prior to his election as Roman Pontiff), has beforehand deviated from the Catholic faith or fallen into any heresy, We enact, decree, determine and define:
    — “Such promotion or election in and of itself, even with the agreement and unanimous consent of all the cardinals, shall be null, legally invalid and void.
    — “It shall not be possible for such a promotion or election to be deemed valid or to be valid, neither through reception of office, consecration, subsequent administration, or possession, nor even through the putative enthronement of a Roman Pontiff himself, together with the veneration and obedience accorded him by all.
    — “Such promotion or election, shall not through any lapse of tune in the foregoing situation, be considered even partially legitimate in any way . . .
    — “Each and all of the words, as acts, laws, appointments of those so promoted or elected —and indeed, whatsoever flows therefrom — shall be lacking in force, and shall grant no stability and legal power to anyone whatsoever.
    — “Those so promoted or elected, by that very fact and without the need to make any further declaration, shall be deprived of any dignity, position, honor, title, authority, office and power.”
    Coronata — Institutions Juris Canonici, 1950
    Quote
    Appointment to the Office of the Primacy.
    1. What is required by divine law for this appointment . . . Also required for validity is that the one elected be a member of the Church; hence, heretics and apostates (at least public ones) are excluded. . . ”
    “It cannot be proven however that the Roman Pontiff, as a private teacher, cannot become a heretic — if, for example, he would contumaciously deny a previously defined dogma. Such impeccability was never promised by God. Indeed, Pope Innocent III expressly admits such a case is possible.
    “If indeed such a situation would happen, he [the Roman Pontiff] would, by divine law, fall from office without any sentence, indeed, without even a declaratory one. He who openly professes heresy places himself outside the Church, and it is not likely that Christ would preserve the Primacy of His Church in one so unworthy. Wherefore, if the Roman Pontiff were to profess heresy, before any condemnatory sentence (which would be impossible anyway) he would lose his authority.”
    Marato — Institutions Juris Canonici, 1921
    Quote
    “Heretics and schismatics are barred from the Supreme Pontificate by the Divine Law itself, because, although by divine law they are not considered incapable of participating in a certain type of ecclesiastical jurisdiction, nevertheless, they must certainly be regarded as excluded from occupying the throne of the Apostolic See, which is the infallible teacher of the truth of the faith and the center of ecclesiastical unity.”
    Billot — De Ecclesia, 1927
    Quote
    “Given, therefore, the hypothesis of a pope who would become notoriously heretical, one must concede without hesitation that he would by that very fact lose the pontifical power, insofar as, having become an unbeliever, he would by his own will be cast outside the body of the Church.”
    CANON 6.6
    Quote
    All former disciplinary laws which were in force until now, and are neither explicitly nor implicitly contained in the Code, shall be regarded as having lost all force, unless they are found in the approved liturgical books, or they are laws derived from the natural and the positive divine law.
    A. Dorsch — Institutions Theologiae Fundamentalis,1928
    Quote
    “The Church therefore is a society that is essentially monarchical. But this does not prevent the Church, for a short time after the death of a pope, or even for many years, from remaining deprived of her head. [vel etiam per plures annos capite suo destituta manet]. Her monarchical form also remains intact in this state . . .
    “Thus the Church is then indeed a headless body . . . Her monarchical form of government remains, though then in a different way —that is, it remains incomplete and to be completed. The ordering of the whole to submission to her Primate is present, even though actual submission is not . . .
    “For this reason, the See of Rome is rightly said to remain after the person sitting in it has died —for the See of Rome consists essentially in the rights of the Primate.
    “These rights are an essential and necessary element of the Church. With them, moreover, the Primacy then continues, at least morally. The perennial physical presence of the person of the head, however, [perennitas autem physica personis principis] is not so strictly necessary” (De Ecclesia 2:196-7).
    Fr. Edward J. O’Reilly, S.J. — The Relations of the Church to Society, 1882
    Quote
    “We may here stop to inquire what is to be said of the position, at that time, of the three claimants, and their rights with regard to the Papacy. In the first place, there was all throughout, from the death of Gregory XI in 1378, a Pope —with the exception, of course, of the intervals between deaths and elections to fill up the vacancies thereby created. There was, I say, at every given time a Pope, really invested with the dignity of vicar of Christ and Head of the Church, whatever opinions might exist among many as to his genuineness; not that an interregnum covering the whole period would have been impossible or inconsistent with the promises of Christ, for this is by no means manifest, but that, as a matter of fact, there was not such an interregnum.”
    Msgr. Charles Journet, The Church of the Incarnate Word
    Quote
    B. The Church During a Vacancy of the Holy See
    We must not think of the church, when the Pope is dead, as possessing the papal power in act, in a state of diffusion, so that she herself can delegate it to the next Pope in whom it will be recondensed and made definite. When the Pope dies the Church is widowed, and, in respect of the visible universal jurisdiction, she is truly acephalous.* ‘But she is not acephalous as are the schismatic Churches, nor like a body on the way to decomposition. Christ directs her from heaven .. . But, though slowed down, the pulse of life has not left the Church; she possesses the power of the Papacy in potency, in the sense that Christ, who has willed her always to depend on a visible pastor, has given her power to designate the man to who He will Himself commit the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, as once He committed them to Peter.
    *During a vacancy of the Apostolic See, says Cajetan, the universal Church is in an imperfect state; she is like an amputated body, not an integral body. “The Church is acephalous, deprived of her highest part and power.”
    Msgr. Journet — The Church of the Incarnate Word
    Quote
    “During a vacancy of the Apostolic See, neither the Church nor the Council can contravene the provisions already laid down to determine the valid mode of election (Cardinal Cajetan, O.P., in De Comparata, cap. xiii, no. 202). However, in case of permission (for example if the Pope has provided nothing against it), or in case of ambiguity (for example, if it is unknown who the true Cardinals are or who the true Pope is, as was the case at the time of the Great Schism), the power ‘of applying the Papacy to such and such a person’ devolves on the universal Church, the Church of God.”
    Cajetan, O. P. — De Comparatione Autoritatis Papae et Concilii
    Quote
    “. . . by exception and by suppletory manner this power (that of electing a pope), corresponds to the Church and to the Council, either by the inexistence of Cardinal Electors, or because they are doubtful, or the election itself is uncertain, as it happens at the time of a schism.”
    Billot — De Ecclesia Christi
    Quote
    “When it would be necessary to proceed with the election, if it is impossible to follow the regulations of papal law, as was the case during the Great Western Schism, one can accept, without difficulty, that the power of election could be transferred to a General Council.”
    “Because ‘natural law prescribes that, in such cases, the power of a Superior is passed to the immediate inferior, because this is absolutely necessary for the survival of the society and to avoid the tribulations of extreme need.”
    Vitoria — De Potestate Ecclesiae
    Quote
    “Even if St. Peter would have not determined anything, once he was dead, the Church had the power to substitute him and appoint a successor to him... If by any calamity, war or plague, all Cardinals would be lacking, we cannot doubt that the Church could provide for herself a Holy Father.
    “Hence such an election; ‘a tota Ecclesia debet provideri et non ab aliqua partuculari Ecclesia.’ (“It should be carried by all the Church and not by any particular Church.”) And this is because “Ilia potestas est communis et spectat ad totam Ecclesiam. Ergo a tata Ecclesia debet provideri.’” (“That power is common and it concerns the whole Church. So it must be the duty of the whole Church.”)
    Cajetan:
    Quote
    “Immediately, one ought to resists in facie, a pope who is publicly destroying the Church; for example, to want to give ecclesiastical benefits for money or charge of services. And one ought to refuse, with all obedience and respect, and not to give possession of these benefits to those who bought them.”
    Silvestra:
    Quote
    “What is there to do when the pope wishes without reason to abrogate the positive right order? To this he responds, ‘He certainly sins; one ought not to permit him to proceed thus, nor ought one to obey him in what is bad; one ought to resist him with a polite reprehension. In consequence, if he wished to deliver all the treasures of the Church and the patrimony of St. Peter to his parents; if he was left to destroy the Church or in similar works, one ought not to permit him to work in this form, having the obligation of giving him resistance. And the reason for this is, in these matters he has no right to destroy. Immediately evident of what he is doing, it is licit to resist him. Of all this it results that, if the pope, by his order or his acts, destroys the Church, one can resist and impede the execution of his commands.’”
    Suarez:
    Quote
    “If the pope gave an order contrary to the good customs, one should not obey him; if his intent is to do something manifestly opposed to justice and the common good, it is lawful and valid to resist; if attacked by force, one shall be able to resist with force, with the moderation appropriate to a just defense.”
    St. Robert Bellarmine:
    Quote
    “Just as it is licit to resist a Pontiff that attacks the body, it is also licit to resist (him) who attacks the soul, or who disturbs the civil order, or, above all, he who intends to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist by not doing what he orders and by impeding the execution of that which he wills. It is not licit, with everything, to judge him impose a punishment, or depose him, for these actions are accorded to one superior to the pope.”
    St. Francis de Sales:
    Quote
    “Now when the Pope is explicitly a heretic, he falls ipso facto from his dignity and out of the Church . . . ”
    St. Robert Bellarmine:
    Quote
    “A Pope who is a manifest heretic automatically ceases to be a Pope and head, just as he ceases automatically to be a Christian and a member of the Church. Wherefore, he can be judged and punished by the Church. This is the teaching of all the ancient Fathers who teach that manifest heretics immediately lose all jurisdiction.”
    St. Alphonsus Liguori:
    Quote
    “If ever a Pope, as a private person, should fall into heresy, he should at once fall from the Pontificate. If, however, God were to permit a pope to become a notorious and contumacious heretic, he would by such fact cease to be pope, and the apostolic chair would be vacant.”
    St. Antoninus:
    Quote
    “In the case in which the Pope would become a heretic, he would find himself, by that very fact alone and without any other sentence, separated from the Church. A head separated from a body cannot, as long as it remains separated, be head of the same body from which it was cut off.”
    Wernz-Vidal — Canon Law, 1943
    Quote
    “Through notorious and openly divulged heresy, the Roman Pontiff, should he fall into heresy, by that very fact (ipso facto) is deemed to be deprived of the power of jurisdiction even before any declaratory judgment by the Church... A Pope who falls into public heresy would cease ipso facto to be a member of the Church; therefore, he would also cease to be head of the Church.” And also: “A doubtful pope is no pope.”
    Catholic Encyclopedia, 1913
    Quote
    “The Pope himself, if notoriously guilty of heresy, would cease to be Pope because he would cease to be a member of the Church.”
    Pope Innocent III:
    Quote
    “The Pope should not flatter himself about his power nor should he rashly glory in his honor and high estate, because the less he is judged by man, the more he is judged by God. Still the less can the Roman Pontiff glory because he can be judged by men, or rather, can be shown to be already judged, if for example he should wither away into heresy; because he who does not believe is already judged, In such a case it should be said of him: ‘If salt should lose its savor, it is good for nothing but to be cast out and trampled under foot by men.’”
    Matthaeus Conte a Coronata — Institutiones Iuris Canonici, 1950
    Quote
    “If indeed such a situation would happen, he (the Roman Pontiff) would, by divine law, fall from office without any sentence, indeed, without even a declaratory one. He who openly professes heresy places himself outside the Church, and it is not likely that Christ would preserve the Primacy of His Church in one so unworthy. Wherefore, if the Roman Pontiff were to profess heresy, before any condemnatory sentence (which would be impossible anyway) he would lose his authority.”
    A. Vermeersch — Epitome Iuris Canonici, 1949
    Quote
    “At least according to the more common teaching; the Roman Pontiff as a private teacher can fall into manifest heresy. Then, without any declaratory sentence (for the Supreme See is judged by no one), he would automatically (ipso facto) fall from power which he who is no longer a member of the Church is unable to possess.”
    Edward F. Regatillo — Institutiones Iuris Canonici, 1956
    Quote
    “‘The pope loses office ipso facto because of public heresy.’ This is the more common teaching, because a pope would not be a member of the Church, and hence far less could he be its head.”

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
    « Reply #66 on: July 18, 2018, 03:16:47 AM »
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  • .
    Of all the Popes in the history of the Church, which one is the greatest opponent for Freemasons?
    .
    When Freemasons pick ONE POPE to hold up as their favorite object of ridicule, sometimes an effigy of this Vicar of Christ which they proceed to insult and abuse ceremoniously (they're really big on ceremony!), which pope would you suppose is their favorite whipping boy?
    .
    Which Pope is the one whose legacy poses to Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, the most ominous obstacle by far?
    .
    Keep in mind, for Freemasons, it isn't the mere appearance of a man they take notice of.
    They take notice of the WORDS he puts down in WRITING, words that carry down through the ages.
    .
    Do they like to ridicule St. Peter?
    Or Pope St. Pius X?
    How about their arch enemy Pope Pius IX? (He convened Vat.I -- which Freemasons hate)
    Or Pope St. Pius V? (He implemented Trent -- much to the chagrin of Freemasons in the future)
    Pope Innocent III? (He gave us one of the EENS dogmatic definitions)
    Pope Pius VII? (He was the Pope imprisoned by Napoleon and gave Freemasons a lot of trouble)
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    Offline cassini

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    Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
    « Reply #67 on: July 19, 2018, 12:36:40 PM »
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  • In 1738, a mere twenty-one years after the Masonic Order first went semi-public in London (1717), the then Pope Clement XII, in his encyclical letter In Eminenti condemned Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ. This exclusion was extended by Pope Pius IX in his Apostolicae Sedis of October 12, 1869 to include the Carbonari and other secret societies also active in the republican revolution in Italy at the time. In all, the Church has issued twenty bulls warning the faithful against Masonry.[1] The problem is that the organisation, while giving the appearance of being Christian to the outside world, in fact has inner cores of ruling initiates who are ultimately about the work of the Devil. This was further emphasised in Pius IX’s Letter Scite Profecto of July 1873, wherein he attributed Masonry to Satan, for he says it can only be him, the eternal adversary of God, who is responsible for it; founded it, and contrived its development. On Nov. 21, 1873 in ‘Etsi Multa,’ the Pope described it as ‘Satan’s ѕуηαgσgυє’ with ipso facto excommunication (canon 2335) for any Catholic who joined or associated with it, reserving absolution to the Holy See alone. The most comprehensive of all these epistles on Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ however, was Pope Leo XIII’s Humanum Genus (1884), warning of the monstrous doctrines of the socialists and communists while pointing out to individuals in these societies to be aware of the ultimate aims of Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ. At the end of this Letter was the invocation of Michael, the prince of the heavenly angels together with Saint Joseph, declared Patron of the Church in the prorogued first Vatican Council (1870), better known in a subsequent ‘Prayer to Saint Michael’ from then on said after Mass. Next, in 1890, in the vernacular encyclical Dall’Alto, addressed to the clergy and people of Italy Masonry was described as pervaded with the spirit of Satan. Another warning came in the Pope’s Custodi of 1892. Addressing the Italian bishops, the Holy Father asserted that ‘the diabolical spirit of all former sects is revived in Masonry that attacks everything sacred, while the public, lulled in false security, does not recognise the danger, for Christianity itself is at stake.’



    [1] The best known of these in 1751, 1814, 1821, 1826, 1829, 1832, 1846, 1865, 1869, 1873 and Pope Leo XIII’s Humanum Genus in 1884.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    On January 3rd, 1997, the following report appeared in The Catholic Herald, an English weekly newspaper:

    ‘The Grand Orient of Italy decided to award the Pontiff Pope John Paul II with the Order of Galileo Galilei, the highest form of recognition able to be made by Italy’s Freemasons to a non-member, in recognition for his promotion of universal Masonic values of fraternity, respect for the dignity of man, and the spirit of tolerance… Our intention is to pay homage to a man who, unlike his predecessors, showed himself to be extremely open-minded, rehabilitating Galileo, promoting a critical analysis of the Inquisition [etc.].’

    Let us recall here the ‘Permanent Instruction of the Alta Vendita,’[1] otherwise known as the ‘Alta Vendita Plan’ discovered in 1820, whose ultimate end is that of Voltaire and the French Revolution which speaks of working for a generation that will rejoice in having a pope ‘according to our wants’ and of a clergy who will ‘march under our banner in the belief always that they march under the banner of the Apostolic Keys.’ Now consider the above report, wherein we see the masters of Italian Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ - whose ultimate aim is to see in the total victory of Antichrist - honour Pope John Paul II with an award named after Galileo Galilei. Coming as it does in a Catholic newspaper, openly and without inhibition, probably illustrates the influence his reformation has had, inside and outside the Church today better than anything we could say.
         The Alta Vendita plan tells of an era of infiltration into the Catholic Church by the Carbonari, who had links with Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, so that they could introduce into the Church their liberal and progressive ideals and principles, a revolution and reformation that manifested itself at that pastoral council Vatican II (1962-65). Martin Wagner, in one of the most revealing books on Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ ever written, Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ: An Interpretation  (1912), summarises this well known society of illuminati thus: ‘Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ in its chief and essential features is a religious institution, and as such has marks and elements that are peculiar to itself but which also differentiate it from Christianity.’

    “Masonry is a religion. If it is not why should it have temples, altars, official rituals, with hymns, odes, prayers, consecrations, and benedictions? Why have high priests, chaplains, written and authorised forms for opening and closing its meetings, for corner-stone laying and dedications, for installations, for the burial of its dead and what not? Why then the grotesque imitations and caricatures of the Church’s forms, even to its sacraments?”[2]



    [1] The secret papers of the Alta Vendita (written in the early 1800s), highest lodge of the Italian secret society, the Carbonari, acquired by Pope Gregory XVI and, on the orders of Pope Pius IX and Pope Leo XIII, was published by Cretineau-Joly in his work The Roman Church and Revolution, reprinted in 1885 and many times since.
    [2] Professor G. Gerberding, D.D., quoted by Martin L, Wagner, Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ: An Interpretation



    Offline Nandarani

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    Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
    « Reply #68 on: July 19, 2018, 11:59:00 PM »
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  • My mostly* only hesitation with this group is that they use the revised Easter Week given by Pope Pius XII.  St. Mary's in Tacoma appeals to me because of the other devotional type activities according to their site that regularly go on. 

    Since I have not yet researched exactly what the revisions mean I only know two things about them:

    1. A kind of renewal of baptismal promises is included
    2. Some traditional catholics think that Pope Pius XII was influenced by modernists in his decision to promulgate the revisions.   Example is those with the SSPV.   I learned that he suffered from attacks of constant hiccoughs for years, and this would be debilitating and may have made it difficult to stand strong or Pope Pius XII may have had very good reasons for the revisions. 

    In any case, he made them and there is an argument to be ok with anything up until the death in 1958.

    *because also I recall from research from a while back that certain groups of trad caths believe there is something deviated in the lineage of those ordained/consecrated.  This goes back to the Schukardt era - that probably came from digesting material at jmjsite.com where I used to spend time.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
    « Reply #69 on: July 20, 2018, 01:08:34 AM »
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  • In 1738, a mere twenty-one years after the Masonic Order first went semi-public in London (1717), the then Pope Clement XII, in his encyclical letter In Eminenti condemned Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ. This exclusion was extended by Pope Pius IX in his Apostolicae Sedis of October 12, 1869 to include the Carbonari and other secret societies also active in the republican revolution in Italy at the time. In all, the Church has issued twenty bulls warning the faithful against Masonry.[1] The problem is that the organisation, while giving the appearance of being Christian to the outside world, in fact has inner cores of ruling initiates who are ultimately about the work of the Devil. This was further emphasised in Pius IX’s Letter Scite Profecto of July 1873, wherein he attributed Masonry to Satan, for he says it can only be him, the eternal adversary of God, who is responsible for it; founded it, and contrived its development. On Nov. 21, 1873 in ‘Etsi Multa,’ the Pope described it as ‘Satan’s ѕуηαgσgυє’ with ipso facto excommunication (canon 2335) for any Catholic who joined or associated with it, reserving absolution to the Holy See alone. The most comprehensive of all these epistles on Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ however, was Pope Leo XIII’s Humanum Genus (1884), warning of the monstrous doctrines of the socialists and communists while pointing out to individuals in these societies to be aware of the ultimate aims of Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ. At the end of this Letter was the invocation of Michael, the prince of the heavenly angels together with Saint Joseph, declared Patron of the Church in the prorogued first Vatican Council (1870), better known in a subsequent ‘Prayer to Saint Michael’ from then on said after Mass. Next, in 1890, in the vernacular encyclical Dall’Alto, addressed to the clergy and people of Italy Masonry was described as pervaded with the spirit of Satan. Another warning came in the Pope’s Custodi of 1892. Addressing the Italian bishops, the Holy Father asserted that ‘the diabolical spirit of all former sects is revived in Masonry that attacks everything sacred, while the public, lulled in false security, does not recognise the danger, for Christianity itself is at stake.’



    [1] The best known of these in 1751, 1814, 1821, 1826, 1829, 1832, 1846, 1865, 1869, 1873 and Pope Leo XIII’s Humanum Genus in 1884.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    On January 3rd, 1997, the following report appeared in The Catholic Herald, an English weekly newspaper:

    ‘The Grand Orient of Italy decided to award the Pontiff Pope John Paul II with the Order of Galileo Galilei, the highest form of recognition able to be made by Italy’s Freemasons to a non-member, in recognition for his promotion of universal Masonic values of fraternity, respect for the dignity of man, and the spirit of tolerance… Our intention is to pay homage to a man who, unlike his predecessors, showed himself to be extremely open-minded, rehabilitating Galileo, promoting a critical analysis of the Inquisition [etc.].’

    Let us recall here the ‘Permanent Instruction of the Alta Vendita,’[1] otherwise known as the ‘Alta Vendita Plan’ discovered in 1820, whose ultimate end is that of Voltaire and the French Revolution which speaks of working for a generation that will rejoice in having a pope ‘according to our wants’ and of a clergy who will ‘march under our banner in the belief always that they march under the banner of the Apostolic Keys.’ Now consider the above report, wherein we see the masters of Italian Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ - whose ultimate aim is to see in the total victory of Antichrist - honour Pope John Paul II with an award named after Galileo Galilei. Coming as it does in a Catholic newspaper, openly and without inhibition, probably illustrates the influence his reformation has had, inside and outside the Church today better than anything we could say.
     The Alta Vendita plan tells of an era of infiltration into the Catholic Church by the Carbonari, who had links with Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, so that they could introduce into the Church their liberal and progressive ideals and principles, a revolution and reformation that manifested itself at that pastoral council Vatican II (1962-65). Martin Wagner, in one of the most revealing books on Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ ever written, Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ: An Interpretation  (1912), summarises this well known society of illuminati thus: ‘Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ in its chief and essential features is a religious institution, and as such has marks and elements that are peculiar to itself but which also differentiate it from Christianity.’

    “Masonry is a religion. If it is not why should it have temples, altars, official rituals, with hymns, odes, prayers, consecrations, and benedictions? Why have high priests, chaplains, written and authorised forms for opening and closing its meetings, for corner-stone laying and dedications, for installations, for the burial of its dead and what not? Why then the grotesque imitations and caricatures of the Church’s forms, even to its sacraments?”[2]



    [1] The secret papers of the Alta Vendita (written in the early 1800s), highest lodge of the Italian secret society, the Carbonari, acquired by Pope Gregory XVI and, on the orders of Pope Pius IX and Pope Leo XIII, was published by Cretineau-Joly in his work The Roman Church and Revolution, reprinted in 1885 and many times since.
    [2] Professor G. Gerberding, D.D., quoted by Martin L, Wagner, Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ: An Interpretation.
    Pope Clement XII
    Pope Gregory XVI
    Pope Pius IX
    Pope Leo XIII
    Any of the Popes who issued one or more of the 20 bulls against Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ in 1751, 1814, 1821, 1826, 1829, 1832, 1846, 1865, 1869, 1873 and 1884
    .
    All Good Guesses
    .
    but no cigar
    .
    .
    Of all the Popes in the history of the Church, which one is the greatest opponent for Freemasons?
    .
    When Freemasons pick ONE POPE to hold up as their favorite object of ridicule, sometimes an effigy of this Vicar of Christ which they proceed to insult and abuse ceremoniously (they're really big on ceremony!), which pope would you suppose is their favorite whipping boy?
    .
    Which Pope is the one whose legacy poses to Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, the most ominous obstacle by far?
    .
    Keep in mind, for Freemasons, it isn't the mere appearance of a man they take notice of.

    They take notice of the WORDS he puts down in WRITING, words that carry down through the ages.

    IOW out of all the words left for posterity of all the popes in the history of the Church, which words are the most offensive to Freemasons, such that the Pope who uttered them and cast them in stone is thereby become their principal adversary?
    .
    .
    .
    Hint:  the Bull Unam Sanctam
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
    « Reply #70 on: July 20, 2018, 01:20:20 AM »
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  • .
    Read this post carefully.
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline JohnAnthonyMarie

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    Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
    « Reply #71 on: July 23, 2018, 08:03:37 PM »
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  • I, without any hesitation, support the Congregatio Mariae Reginae Immaculatae (CMRI)

    http://CMRI.org
    Omnes pro Christo

    Offline Motorede

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    Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
    « Reply #72 on: July 23, 2018, 10:07:51 PM »
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  • Pope Clement XII
    Pope Gregory XVI
    Pope Pius IX
    Pope Leo XIII
    Any of the Popes who issued one or more of the 20 bulls against Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ in 1751, 1814, 1821, 1826, 1829, 1832, 1846, 1865, 1869, 1873 and 1884
    .
    All Good Guesses
    .
    but no cigar
    .
    .
    Of all the Popes in the history of the Church, which one is the greatest opponent for Freemasons?
    .
    When Freemasons pick ONE POPE to hold up as their favorite object of ridicule, sometimes an effigy of this Vicar of Christ which they proceed to insult and abuse ceremoniously (they're really big on ceremony!), which pope would you suppose is their favorite whipping boy?
    .
    Which Pope is the one whose legacy poses to Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, the most ominous obstacle by far?
    .
    Keep in mind, for Freemasons, it isn't the mere appearance of a man they take notice of.

    They take notice of the WORDS he puts down in WRITING, words that carry down through the ages.

    IOW out of all the words left for posterity of all the popes in the history of the Church, which words are the most offensive to Freemasons, such that the Pope who uttered them and cast them in stone is thereby become their principal adversary?
    .
    .
    .
    Hint:  the Bull Unam Sanctam
    Years ago in New England three sisters from Saint Benedict Center walked into an insurance office selling From the Housetops. It was after 5pm and all the employees had left for the day. The boss invited the sisters in for a conversation. He used to be Catholic but is now a mason, he told them. He then opened his desk drawer and took out two items: a wooden box and an ornamental dagger. "Do you want to know what's in this box?", he asked them. Without waiting for an answer he opened it and brought out a human skull, or a facsimile of one, and told them it was the skull of Pope Boniface VIII which they stabbed at their meetings with this dagger. No drama occurred afterwards but the good sisters were naturally nervous. Dominating this emotion one sister spoke up and asked him," when you were a Catholic you made your First Holy Communion and believed it was Jesus Christ, the Son of God, didn't you?" "Yes, I did. I used to believe that." "Then how could you have given that up?" And they left his office.

    Offline OHCA

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    Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
    « Reply #73 on: July 27, 2018, 06:37:17 AM »
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  • There is no 'unmentionable thing" Neil, so quit trying to read my mind.  I am just tired of the constant battles on the BOD topic here, so I prefer to avoid them like the plague.

    However, given you are looking for the CMRI to recognize the teaching "Outside the Church there is No Salvation". I will offer you this link from the CMRI website (although I am sure it's still not good enough for you):

    http://www.cmri.org/02-v2_non-christian.shtml


    The attitude of the Catholic Church towards pagans, Mohammedans and Jєωs has always been clear — there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. Even supposing a person were invincibly ignorant of the true Church, he must still follow the natural law to be saved (implicit baptism of desire). It is evident, according to Catholic theology, that these false and immoral religions are opposed to the natural law. The Fathers of the Church, as well as many true Popes, have been quite strong in their condemnation of these religions, and especially of Mohammedanism and Judaism, which have persistently attacked the Catholic Church throughout history.


     
    .
    This re-phrasing says the same thing:
    .
    There is no salvation outside the Church EXCEPT for those who follow natural law.
    .
    We have the attitude of EENS as to pagans, Jєωs, and mohammadeans.  But we fancy a different attitude as to those who follow natural law.

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
    « Reply #74 on: August 01, 2018, 10:21:30 AM »
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  • Well, their publication TWICE published an article entitled "The Salvation of those outside the Church" ... a direct word-for-word contradiction of Catholic dogma.
    That article is in the library, go read it!   The title was not there's it was the authors.
    You know that because I posted this truth about the article.  It offends God and He is crucified again when people deceive. 
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/