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Author Topic: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?  (Read 14121 times)

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Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2018, 10:22:18 AM »
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Did you see that I said this is my own personal experience?  I saw it happen with my own eyes. Are you accusing me of lying to you?
A bit defensive Neil, no?

Yes I did see that you said this is your own personal experience.  I'm not saying that didn't happen to you.  What I am asking for is the official stance of CMRI.  When I look at their website, I see no where where they call it "dogma".  Here is the page they devote to BOD/BOB:

http://www.cmri.org/02-baptism_blood-desire_quotes.shtml

And with that, I'll leave this discussion to others.  I make it a habit to stay out of this topic (i.e. I stay out of the ghetto).

Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2018, 10:29:16 AM »
And that's Vatican II in a nutshell.
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You would think that someone so up-in-arms against Vat.II would have a better notion of what the Church is all about.
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Emily Radecki (RIP), the mother of Fr. Dominic and Fr. Francisco (both CMRI), even though Polish, had an intense disregard for JPII (who was also Polish) and everything he represented. I found that amazing. She had a cheerful disposition that could go on for days at a time, but it instantly disappeared at the very mention of his name! 


Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2018, 10:36:09 AM »
A bit defensive Neil, no?

Yes I did see that you said this is your own personal experience.  I'm not saying that didn't happen to you.  What I am asking for is the official stance of CMRI.  When I look at their website, I see no where where they call it "dogma".  Here is the page they devote to BOD/BOB:

http://www.cmri.org/02-baptism_blood-desire_quotes.shtml

And with that, I'll leave this discussion to others.  I make it a habit to stay out of this topic (i.e. I stay out of the ghetto).
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That's fine. I'm not blaming you for not wanting to talk about it.
It's only relevant here to lend emphasis to the "elephant in the room" as JPaul aptly put it.
Have you been able to find a nice page summarizing the history of EENS on the CMRI site?
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Or, if you think that's too much to ask (some think so) then how about a page on THE NECESSITY OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH?
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Go ahead, take a few days, or weeks, if you need it.
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The real topic of concern is EENS, a thrice-defined* ex cathedra dogma of the Faith -- which means,
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If you reject EENS you're not Catholic.                      
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See the difference?
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*Can you find any other dogma of the Faith that has been defined ex cathedra three times? 

Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2018, 11:00:07 AM »
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I found one page with two oblique mentions of the necessity of the Church for salvation, but nothing clearly developing the theme:
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http://www.cmri.org/001-conciliar-church-says-jews-need-not-convert.shtml
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Modernist Church: Conversion of the Jews Not Necessary
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This startling heresy has come more sharply into focus in the last twenty-five years or so. Although not explicitly contained in Nostra Aetate of Vatican II, it was there implicitly (after all, in the spirit of false ecuмenism, we can’t be teaching the necessity of salvation in the one true Church founded by Christ).
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Could it be any clearer, then, that the Gospel is for all, and necessary for all, that they may be saved? “There is neither Jew nor Greek: there is neither bond nor free: there is neither male nor female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus“ (Galatians 3:28 ).
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Notice, the first is in the form of what we supposedly CAN'T do according to the unclean spirit of Vatican II, "...we can’t be teaching the necessity of salvation in the one true Church founded by Christ." The second is in the form of a question, not an authoritative teaching (which is the nature of any dogma): "Could it be any clearer, then, that the Gospel is for all, and necessary for all, that they may be saved?"
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Is that how the Church teaches its infallible dogmas, with hypothetical negatives and rhetorical questions? 
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, no such equivocation is allowed for the most important thing, which 2Vermont doesn't want to hear.

Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2018, 12:09:41 PM »
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Here is a page containing an article written by Bishop Pivarunas that comes close to mentioning EENS but never quite gets there:
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http://www.cmri.org/02-doctrinal-errors-v2.html
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It has a number of useful references on several aspects of doctrinal errors of Vat.II, but never quite hits the nail on the head.
In fact, the twin priests Radecki have been talking about their new book that was going to come out a year ago, for twice that long, and its topic is the doctrinal errors of Vatican II. I wonder if they'll have a page or two on EENS? Or ........... not?
For example, the piece never quite gets around to mentioning the one place in Vat.II where EENS has been directly attacked, LG 8.
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(Lumen Gentium paragraph 8 -- I checked with a search and found no "LG," no "lume" and no "subs" are on this CMRI page, so I'm not making a mistake. It's NOT THERE. The text in question says, after mentioning "the Church of Christ," then says, "this Church, constituted and organized as a society in this present world, subsists in (subsistit in) the Catholic Church, governed by the Successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him, although (licet) many elements of sanctification and truth can be found outside her structure; such elements, as gifts properly belonging to the Church of Christ, impel towards Catholic unity". This most usually gets shortened to, "The Church of Christ ... subsists in the Catholic Church." It's such a sore subject that EWTN -- posting an article by one Fr. Fernando Ocáriz -- devotes about 3,000 words to defending Vat.II in this regard, here, where it tries to deliver the message, by repetition, that many misunderstandings and misinterpretations of the shortened version are in circulation. So, effectively, Vat.II has been MISUNDERSTOOD by so many people for what, 53 years now, that no Pope has intervened to settle the confusion with a definitive clarification -- (?) -- uuhh -- wait........)

From the linked page:
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Ever convinced of her divine origin, the Catholic Church has always condemned the erroneous belief that all religions are more or less good and praiseworthy and that it doesn’t matter to what church one belongs for men can find salvation in any church. This is the false doctrine of religious indifferentism which has been frequently condemned by the Catholic Church.
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So far, so good. But can anyone explain why Bp. Mark Pivarunas fails to mention any one of the THREE ex cathedra definitions of EENS, nor does he manage to pronounce the sentence, "Outside the Church there is No Salvation?"
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Notice the form his most closely approximating sentence takes:
A statement beginning with the longstanding condemnation against an erroneous belief of one form of contradiction of the apparently-unmentionable thing (whatever-it-is). He then follows that up with an example of a denial of the thing, whatever it is.
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He does not state what EENS is, but ever-so-cautiously approaches its left flank by FOUR LEVELS of abstraction:
-- Longstanding condemnation
-- Erroneous belief
-- One form of contradiction
-- False doctrine of Indifferentism
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Now, don't get me wrong, these are all good points. But why does he conspicuously avoid the elephant in the room?
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P.S.  I have a theory.
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